[LP] Rating the Leader Pass Leaders

[Zegangani]

I disagree. Saladin was one of the leaders where it made the most sense for a persona. His original leader abilities did not represent the turbulent period of the Crusades at all, which is what he is most known for. It was like they slapped an Abbasid Caliph's bonuses onto Saladin.

Fair enough. And that's actually the exact reason why I didn't want a Persona for him, but wish that they have reworked his Leader Ability and integrated his original Ability more into the Civ Ability, as it could apply to practically any possible Arabia Leader. And then added an alternative Leader.

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

The best leader is Tokugawa. It was a perfectly thematic way of making Japan isolationist, as well as making it a lot of fun. Japan is already a generalist, but Tokugawa steers it more towards scientific victory. Isolationist, turtle playstyles are very popular, so the community is grateful we got this option for Japan.

Ludwig is also very welcome. I love how they based an ability on a bug! Throwing unfinished wonders around is unique and interesting, and they made Germany greater because of that.

I did like Nzinga for giving Kongo a proper leader finally, but she's so cheesy and OP. It's Lady Six Sky without the drawbacks. Poor design. Probably the strongest leader ability in the game, but just ridiculous.

 

[reddishrecue]

I remember Rameses from civilization 1 which got brought back. That was a good visual itself. It seemed like he had glowing eyes back then. Idk who to choose but it doesn't hurt having a wider variety of civs to choose from.

 

[Alex Vance]

I picked Theodora, Tokugawa, and Ludwig for my personal top 3.
Yongle is definitely S tier, but he's just not my style.
Varangian Harald is my runner-up and I'm still on the fence whether he is S tier or B tier.

 

[Navelgazer]

Having not yet played with everybody, I still cast my vote like a good uninformed citizen! So!

Most Powerful:
1. SteamVicky (If I can ever get past England's apparent start bias against ever having a decent start. That might just be my own fluke of luck though.)
2. Yongle (Maybe should have the #1 spot, but SteamVicky's bonuses stack to a ridiculous degree and the snowball can start pretty early.)
3. Tokugawa (Boosting internal trade-routes can create a powerhouse civ for sure. Arguably Nzinga and some others are more powerful but "powerful in a kinda boring way" doesn't move me as much.)

Best Game Designs:
1. Ludwig (Such a fun and thematic idea, takes Germany away from "all about war!" to a new cultural place while still fitting with the overall Civ design. Germany's got stuff about it that's way more interesting to me than war, and I don't like the idea of glorifying their history of war either, so I'm very happy with this.)
2. Tokugawa (I love internal trade routes, and this makes them better. So simple, but changing up the way the game is played so that it matches something I'd like to do more of anyway is great.)
3. Yongle (Just bonkers good for rapid starts and sinking those extra turns between finishing production and waiting for a tech to complete into pure gold, plays like no one else.)

Best Models:
1. Nzinga (The high-water mark for all Civ6 models, IMO)
2. SteamVicky (Don't care if it's anachronistic, that outfit looks amazing)
3. Ludwig (Hilariously full of personality, plus looks like a dead ringer for an actor I know.)
4. Sundieta (Just a gorgeous design here, not much more to say.)
5. Wu Zetian (She scares me in a good way. Looks like she's always one turn away from DOWing me and usually is.)

 

[Shirotora Kenshin]

As someone who is in love with graphics, art, models, style etc. i must say i like the appearance of Sejong, Yongle and Ptolemaic Cleopatra the most in LP. But of course this is just my personal taste.

I am very disappointed in Tokugawa Ieyasu‘s armor. Just not very detailed, but his face and hair looks cool to me. Only his armor is very far away from looking cool.

Some people complain about Yongle‘s yellow clothes, i can understand that, but still, it is just how it should look.

No word about the abilities.

Overall some pretty nice to have and new leaders for the game
Enjoy them while we are curious when the next civ game will be announced

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

On the note of aesthetics, I want to show some love to Sultan Saladin and Suleiman's persona. For the latter, I find the color scheme a little jarring (it's mostly that pale yellow on blue on bright red), but it works well with the intricate designs to produce an ostentatious outfit that's, well, magnificent. It's still quite detailed for Leader Pass standards.

Saladin just looks great. He and Harald were two I was most impressed by- the artists found really natural ways to fit armor over incredibly idiosyncratic faces. This is about as good as this Saladin face can look, in my opinion (I personally find it a little too cartoonish), and it's certainly the best armor of the Leader Pass (though Harald's is pretty good, too).

Okay I was going to contain myself and finish the post here but the armor ramble has begun to spill and it won't stop until it's empty. Unifier Qin's armor looks good conceptually and is just held back by a material that doesn't seem to match. Tokugawa's armor approaches greatness but lacks depth and feels a little too matte.

 

[Kotofei]

Why do y'all like Tokugawa so much? He has good trade routes and....that's about it. Cool story bro. Nearly all of the other new leaders are more interesting.

 

[pokiehl]

Why do y'all like Tokugawa so much? He has good trade routes and....that's about it. Cool story bro. Nearly all of the other new leaders are more interesting.

It’s a very powerful ability that encourages a unique and thematic playstyle (isolationism).

It’s probably the most interesting Trade Route-focused ability in the game.

 

[Kotofei]

I did like Nzinga for giving Kongo a proper leader finally, but she's so cheesy and OP. It's Lady Six Sky without the drawbacks. Poor design. Probably the strongest leader ability in the game, but just ridiculous.

I agree. I was expecting to see her voted higher than she was because of that.

 

[reddishrecue]

Why do y'all like Tokugawa so much? He has good trade routes and....that's about it. Cool story bro. Nearly all of the other new leaders are more interesting.

I liked because he was brought back from vanilla to this expansion. Sort of like Lincoln and Rameses.
Edit: I chose Lincoln, sultan Saladin and sejong. Saladin because of Islam and Lincoln because he was updated from earlier versions and sejong because they brought him back too and he's a research civ.

 

[gadgetfreaky]

The most promising new leaders to me seem to be Ludwig, Yongle and Theodora. So far I've just played the first two and I found Ludwig a lot more fun with those bonuses really stacking well for massive production later on. Yongle just seemed "okay" with some early growth. Not sure the modifier for 10+ pop cities was as impactful as what Ludwig can do with all those adjacencies.
I will say one thing -Ludiwg really requires advanced planning. Overall I think he might be the most powerful of the new leaders. Still waiting to do a game with Theodora.

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

I will say one thing -Ludiwg really requires advanced planning. Overall I think he might be the most powerful of the new leaders. Still waiting to do a game with Theodora.

Theodora is far superior to Ludwig, and its really no contest between the two.

Me and a mate tried out the two in a coop game in deity, and even though he had a better start than me (was able to rush down Cahokia and get Mt. Roraima), I snowballed extremely hard with Theodora (desert folklore, not the ideal desert start but fortunately got the Pantheon by pillaging Nazca lines for early faith).
The speed at which she sbowballs is absolutely stupid, she is guaranteed to get a religion, and the combat modifiers from Taxis and Crusade are just too strong (like on Basil).
Was able to dominate my entire continent by late medieval era, and could honestly play for any victory type I wanted at that point, but ended up going domination and winning in early industrial era because it was the fastest.

My mate did start off strong in the ancient era by abusing the early unfinished wonders, but even by the late ancient era/early classical, it was already obvious that I was heavily surpassing him with that holy site spam.
Ludwig just cant reach those levels of yields, even with optimal district and wonder placements (and usually you wont get it perfect either).

 

[Planktonic]

Theodora is far superior to Ludwig, and its really no contest between the two.

I've only just started a game with her, but afaict she's the strongest leader/civ in the whole game at this point.

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

I've only just started a game with her, but afaict she's the strongest leader/civ in the whole game at this point.

Yeah I agree with that, she is the uncontested top pick at this point, and seriously OP.
I personally considered Russia the best before (others might disagree, but that is besides the point), but now its no contest.
She gets the best of all worlds, doesnt rely on RNG factors and is just busted and broken at this point.

I see others mention Tokugawa and Nzinga here, but honestly those two are nowhere near the levels of OP that Theodora is.
Case in point: I had a bad desert start as Theodora and got a classical dark age, yet still mowed down Jayavarman, Caesar and Ramses despite being in a dark age with a far away desert start.
Just mowed down new cities faster than they rebel, while having stupid amounts of culture and production behind it.
On Deity.

 

[KayAU]

I'm unfortunately at the point where I can't play Civ 6 for more than a couple of eras, but the ones I have tried and like the most are:

Nzinga Mbande
Kongo has been one of my favourite Civs, but Mwemba's ability was always a bit of a detriment. With Nzinga, I get to build Holy Sites as Kongo, and her ability fits well with Kongo's tall tendencies. It is somewhat similar to the Mayan LA, and the Maya are probably my favourite civ overall.

Yongle
The ability to produce Faith for an early Pantheon is cool, and I also like the enhanced yields from citizens in medium-to-large cities.

Sundiata Keita
I really like Mali, and Sundiata's ability is good. The yields from Great Works of Writing help offset Mali's production malus, while also supporting their strong gold economy. The ability reminds me a bit of Kongo, who also get passive yields from Great Works.

 

[gadgetfreaky]

I've only just started a game with her, but afaict she's the strongest leader/civ in the whole game at this point.

Interesting- do ya'll think she is stronger than the Aztec on conquest mode? I find that by far the most OP in game.

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

Interesting- do ya'll think she is stronger than the Aztec on conquest mode? I find that by far the most OP in game.

Yes, because she frontloads that power from Taxis and Crusade already in the ancient/classical era, whereas the Aztec's power grows slowly (apart from eagle warriors, those are frontloaded).
She can get around +15 combat strength from crusade and taxis in early classical era, whereas the Aztecs wont see that combat modifier from their ability until the late game.
And you are not committed to an early push in the same way either, because you have the holy site infrastructure to fall back on if your invasion goes south.

She is just broken.

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

Extra production for a civ with penalties toward production? Extra gold for a civ already rolling in gold? Seems like strange ability to me

I am playing a game with him now, and its pretty underwhelming indeed.
You cannot get nearly enough great works of writing for this ability to actually make an impact on the game, and it takes far too long to kick in.
I am enjoying my game though, but that's more because I am playing work ethic Mali, not because of this guy.
Also a quick caveat:
I have loads of gold, but spend a lot of it buying up great works, so there is nowhere near enough left for great people (his ability).
I do however have loads of faith to buy GPs with, but those I dont get any discount for.
Non-synergistic at best.

I did like Nzinga for giving Kongo a proper leader finally, but she's so cheesy and OP. It's Lady Six Sky without the drawbacks. Poor design. Probably the strongest leader ability in the game, but just ridiculous

Let's calm down here on the superlatives, that ability is pretty meh. She is nowhere near OP, as 10% as a percentage modifier kicks in too late to be that strong when it matters (early). Its not bad, but nowhere near OP.

I agree. I was expecting to see her voted higher than she was because of that.

Same as above, she isnt OP at all.

 

[gadgetfreaky]

Yes, because she frontloads that power from Taxis and Crusade already in the ancient/classical era, whereas the Aztec's power grows slowly (apart from eagle warriors, those are frontloaded).
She can get around +15 combat strength from crusade and taxis in early classical era, whereas the Aztecs wont see that combat modifier from their ability until the late game.
And you are not committed to an early push in the same way either, because you have the holy site infrastructure to fall back on if your invasion goes south.

She is just broken.

I hear ya but Basil had that both Taxis and the option to pick Crusde before- and not exactly a lot of folks dying to play him. What's the difference?