Does Satan (The Devil) Actually Exist?

[ironduck]

Those kind of people are probably just fallen men, not necessarily Satan's instruments. (I am assuming you're talking about sociopaths and not necessarily brain-damaged individuals?)

It could be argued that being a sociopath is to be brain damaged (or brain deficient or what you want to call it). Or brain disabled.

How are people who have a brain deficency (from our perspective anyway) 'fallen'? They were born that way, don't you have to have made a choice to 'fall' in this sense?

 

[puglover]

It could be argued that being a sociopath is to be brain damaged (or brain deficient or what you want to call it). Or brain disabled.

How are people who have a brain deficency (from our perspective anyway) 'fallen'? They were born that way, don't you have to have made a choice to 'fall' in this sense?

I don't know how God judges the brain-damaged. The best one can do is rely on God's mercy and pray for the soul.

Personally, (this has no basis on scripture, but it's my theory) I think that when God gives new bodies to the dead souls, every mind will be cleared of disabilites, and the disabled can make the decision themselves.

 

[ironduck]

That's all honky dory, but I was just wondering if people who believe Satan influences things use 'brain damaged' people as his tools or if Satan doesn't have anything to do with those people. Because people who believe Satan is an influence usually say that people have been 'tempted' by Satan to commit sin.

 

[Dionysius]

That's all honky dory, but I was just wondering if people who believe Satan influences things use 'brain damaged' people as his tools or if Satan doesn't have anything to do with those people. Because people who believe Satan is an influence usually say that people have been 'tempted' by Satan to commit sin.

as for "brain-damaged", i think its a crude way of expressing
that they think being immoral isnt something a healthy
brain should even think of. i guess i have only 2 or three
non-brain damaged cells then.

 

[ironduck]

That's why I said 'from our perspective' and put 'brain damaged' in quotation marks..

 

[El_Machinae]

Satan is the angel that challenged G-d and lost. He is the source of things in nature that kill people, like natural disasters, illness, etc... Other things like war, weapons, WMD's, etc... are the result of human free will.

Science beat the Devil when we cured leprosy?

 

[Warman17]

Other:

There is God, but no Satan.

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

Sadly, that's the way many Christian pastors work. Blame it on the devil when things don't work out nicely. That's why I don't attribute any failure to Satan. Though I know he exists, I don't know enough to say when he is working, and I hold myself accountable when I fail.

I once read an essay regarding how Satan is the most honest figure in the Bible. If you take every statement by Satan in the Bible, you will find that each one of them was true, within the internal consistency (what little of it there is) in the Bible. The same can't be said of other figures in the Bible, such as God himself, who often lies, changes his mind, or backs out on promises. I find this to be a humorous and ironic premise.

 

[Dionysius]

indeed.
posting this pointless post because i accidently unsubscibed.

 

[nihilistic]

from buddhism "there can be no good without evil no left without right if only good existed then how can it be good" if you believe in jesus you believe in satan

I find that quite amusing.

So to justify your believe in "satan" as an extension of your believe in "jesus", you refer to organizational concepts from another religion? Are you both a christian and a buddhist?

EDIT: I almost forgot. That concept you quoted isn't exactly from Buddhism. It's Daoism.

 

[Dionysius]

i`d be a buddhist if it wasnt for that damn pacifist thing. me-->

 

[Dann]

Why does everyone think Buddhist = pacifist?

This is but a recent condition. Look up history to see that this was not always the case. King Asoka. The Shaolin monks. The sohei of Japan. Heck even Lu Zhi Shen of The Water Margin was depicted as armed with this nasty-looking huge crescent glaive.

On topic I apologize for inserting a Dragonball Z reference in such a serious discussion but it was just too hard to resist. What with the name and all. (The devil made me do it? )

Anyway my stand is that we humans are dualistic by nature. We have much good within us, but are also capable of much evil if it be allowed to develop. Those who would shift the blame to an external bogeyman are but taking the easy way out.

 

[El_Machinae]

I see it as almost impossible for a human to perform a purely good action; and therefore nearly every action contains an element of evil. It's certainly impossible to live while only performing only good actions (especially if you consider opportunity cost and potential people)

 

[Stylesjl]

God vs Satan. He-Man vs Skeletor. All the same to me.

Archetypes, fantasies, simple metaphors to explain away more complex ideas.

I don't believe in good or evil, only human actions exist, and our reaction.

.

I approve of this statement as an expression of my own opinion as well as Curtsibling's

 

[Kyriakos]

I would say that good and evil do exist, but not as the simple ideas presented in popular ethics, or religions.

Anyone can sense that to chop one's head off is an act which has various differences than the act of speaking to him politely and kindly.
Whereas it can easily be argued that one could chop heads, and not view it as "evil", it is a totally different issue whether or not in a deeper level violence is something of a different quality than constructive and friendly behaviour.

I would therefore say, very briefly, that good and evil are masks of deeper elements in one's mind, just like opposite directions do exist as well without being linked to two distinct opossite directions in any part of our enviornment, and much less to any individual's personal views about which direction is more favourable to him. The difference in directions is a different issue than the social understanding of value given on any of the different directions.

In a deeper level any idea about humanity collapses infront of entirely unhumanised mechanisms of the brain.

 

[ironduck]

Masks of deeper elements of what?

 

[Abaddon]

God vs Satan. He-Man vs Skeletor. All the same to me.

Archetypes, fantasies, simple metaphors to explain away more complex ideas.

I don't believe in good or evil, only human actions exist, and our reaction.

.

Makes sence to me...

 

[Kyriakos]

Masks of deeper elements of what?

Uknown mostly. According to the neuroscientific theories that prevail: any mental mechanism is the result of the entire "brain mass" and not simply limited to any part of the brain. That means that all of the brain takes part in any "thought". Even if only individual parts took place that would still mean billions of neural connections, and all of that could not realistically be explained by a simple notion of "good" or "evil" in ethical terms.

The notion of direction, difference, effect come into play in very epidermic levels of thought, in regards to the issue of good and evil. Below them there are more abstract parametres. For example you have a view of yourself, but if you take out anything that is social or libidinal (sexual) about your view, then what remains? Still below all that you have an existence, outside the view that you are a human being (which you are), as an individual entity able to think.

I would not go into detail on these issues here, since they are very complicated They are philosophico-psychologico-neuroscientific, and of those i am mostly somewhat familiar with the first two factors

 

[carlosMM]

I nominate this poll as 'most religously loaded poll in the history of CFC OT'.




'evil' is what we define as such, so your option 2 is nonsense. Morales exist outside and withour religion (though they can incorporate religion, and religion can incorporate them).

 

[ironduck]

varwnos, I have no issues with your last post, I just don't know what you mean by good/evil being 'masks' of deeper elements.

It's the mask part that I find confusing. I'm not entirely unfamiliar with psychoanalysis, but what you said could mean a lot of things, it seems rather unspecific.. perhaps you could give an example and explain how the 'mask' concept applies.