Does the AI actually use Carriers?

[oldStatesman]

I see the AI build carriers in my games a lot - sometimes several; I have seen them send them out to sea during war - unescorted at that - and they get sunk pretty fast. It seems the AI I have played against builds them over Battleships and destroyers...

If they don't get sunk, will the AI actually use them as carriers - i.e. base planes on them and use them to bomb their enemies? They have not done it against me - i never let them live long enough to get close to my shores. Or do they just build them and send them out to sea becasue they see them as powerful units?

 

[wilbill]

Sure, if you let them get close enough, the planes based on AI carriers will bomb you.

But the AI handles carriers the same way it handles all naval units - poorly. Even in a game where an AI builds a large navy, it tends to throw the ships away piecemeal rather than massing them for a large battle as a human player would. You won't see the AI carry out a large, succesful amphibious assault either.

 

[oldStatesman]

Thanks wilbill.

BTW, like the quotes in your sig. Very timely.

 

[Turner]

You won't see the AI carry out a large, succesful amphibious assault either.

Yeah, I've seen two and three frigates escorting a caravel to drop of one knight or calvary way on the other side of the front. Stupid unit couldn't even amphibious attack, and was taken out before it could do any damage.

Not smart.

 

[Bluemofia]

When they do bomb me, I always manage to see a single frame of the plane going back. Then I sink it with a few battleships.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

The AI handles Carriers way better than any other naval forces. At least in C3C (since they now protect them).

 

[budweiser]

Yeah, I've seen two and three frigates escorting a caravel to drop of one knight or calvary way on the other side of the front. Stupid unit couldn't even amphibious attack, and was taken out before it could do any damage.

Not smart.

Meh, this is now that standard to which my wars are soemtimes fought. Its not worth building a navy to patrol the far side of my empire. If I have the troops around, fine I destroy the invasion. If not, then I talk peace as long as my war goals are met. The old end around has brought me to the peace table many times.

 

[Dark Russell]

I play on a 224x224 map with plenty of other civs and the AI does mass large fleets and does send more than one ship to land trrops. I think their invasion plans are based around how many units they have available to load and send on ships. I was surprised once with an invasion force of 3 infantry and 9 cavalry. I have also been hit by several sea based bombers and lost a plane to fighter cover over that same flotilla. If you can stand long turns, try larger maps, it may give you what you are looking for.

 

[oldStatesman]

I play on a 224x224 map with plenty of other civs and the AI does mass large fleets and does send more than one ship to land trrops. I think their invasion plans are based around how many units they have available to load and send on ships. I was surprised once with an invasion force of 3 infantry and 9 cavalry. I have also been hit by several sea based bombers and lost a plane to fighter cover over that same flotilla. If you can stand long turns, try larger maps, it may give you what you are looking for.

What version - exactly how many civs, what style world, etc. I'd like to set it up - This would be cool! -

 

[Bleser]

I really hope that the AI handles its Navies much better in Civ IV. In every Civ III version I've played, on difficulty levels up to Demigod, I've NEVER felt threated by an AI civ that isn't on my continent....which, in real history, was no longer a barrier around the time of WWII.

 

[oldStatesman]

I really hope that the AI handles its Navies much better in Civ IV. In every Civ III version I've played, on difficulty levels up to Demigod, I've NEVER felt threated by an AI civ that isn't on my continent....which, in real history, was no longer a barrier around the time of WWII.

Actually much earlier than that - Ancient med civs used seaborne invasion all the time - Rome and the Saxons did succesfully invade Briton; The Vikings were all over the place; England ruled a multi continent empire for centuries; the Spanish conquered another continent entirely in the 16th century...

Yeah, it's a shame the AI is broke in civ when it comes to Navies - my first game I built a huge combined Battleship/Carrier fleet like the US in WWII...only to find it challenged by 2 destroyers, 6 frigates and a curragh. Pah.

 

[Dark Russell]

What version - exactly how many civs, what style world, etc. I'd like to set it up - This would be cool! -

I play a modded monarch level, continents, 60% water, 20 to 26 civs.

I give the AI:
4 extra settlers
6 extra workers
6 offencive units
6 defencive units
100 free unit support + 10 extra free per city
140% AI trade
0% bonus vs barbs
100% corruption rate
Barbs on Raging Hordes

Each civ starts with only 1 tech.

If you need more info on what I have modded, PM me.

 

[Willem]

I have seen them send them out to sea during war - unescorted at that - and they get sunk pretty fast.

That can't happen anymore with Conquests, they now require an escort in order to move anywhere.

 

[Pounder]

Actually I think the AI uses carriers alot more than I do. They use them all the time.

 

[Evil Tyrant]

The AI does use carriers, i'm at war with Babylon and they are on another continent. First turn into the war they bomb two of my core cities. fortunatly i can build flaks, which has cut down the problem considerably.

 

[charlesolmsted]

In my custom difficulty level 240x240 map the AI actually does use navies effectively. I have been running the game more as a test of what the AI can do if given proper resources and is allowed to grow than as an actual game.

In one recent simulation, I sealed off my land border with Russia from the start using artillery, infantry and machineguns. Unless they got an army, the AI would not attack this defensive line early in the game. So, the Russians decided to go around my line. The Russians had a fleet of 12 galley's dropping troops on my shore every single round until I managed to completely seal off that shore. They were running relays from their coast to mine - dropping about 2 horseman, 2 archers, 3 spears and 3 swordsman every turn. In a normal game this would have been the kind of force that one cannot ignore.

The most annoying part is that they were my ally (we had a MPP) and they were clearly trying to attack me! I hate the backstabbing AI in this game. Fortunately I have my own "special diplomatic corps" to keep my game running the way I want it to. I made up an assassin/spy unit that is hidden nationality and invisible with very high attack - whose only purpose is to keep the AI from being able to declare war on me against its own best interest. When I am trying to allow the computer to prosper and build up its strength, the last thing I need for them to do is try to stab me in the back.

 

[Bleser]

In my custom difficulty level 240x240 map the AI actually does use navies effectively. I have been running the game more as a test of what the AI can do if given proper resources and is allowed to grow than as an actual game.

In one recent simulation, I sealed off my land border with Russia from the start using artillery, infantry and machineguns. Unless they got an army, the AI would not attack this defensive line early in the game. So, the Russians decided to go around my line. The Russians had a fleet of 12 galley's dropping troops on my shore every single round until I managed to completely seal off that shore. They were running relays from their coast to mine - dropping about 2 horseman, 2 archers, 3 spears and 3 swordsman every turn. In a normal game this would have been the kind of force that one cannot ignore.

The most annoying part is that they were my ally (we had a MPP) and they were clearly trying to attack me! I hate the backstabbing AI in this game. Fortunately I have my own "special diplomatic corps" to keep my game running the way I want it to. I made up an assassin/spy unit that is hidden nationality and invisible with very high attack - whose only purpose is to keep the AI from being able to declare war on me against its own best interest. When I am trying to allow the computer to prosper and build up its strength, the last thing I need for them to do is try to stab me in the back.

That is a pretty cool idea.

I, too, hate the backstabbing AI. Early on in my Civ 3 play I would think that I could befriend an AI and count on him not attacking me ever, but I soon found out that, no matter what their attitude is or how nice you have been, they will always attack you if they think they can win.

I guess this is accuarate, however, since history has proven that even if you have something like a non-aggression pact with another country, you can still get attacked by that country (i.e. Germany & Russia in 1941).

 

[charlesolmsted]

There is a serious difference between thinking you can win - and taking a reasoned risk - and just being stupid. In this case, the AI knows I am building Panzers, when its best unit is the swordsman. Under what risk calculation can it possibly win?

If the AI were being opportunistic, that would be one thing - but there should be something to keep it from being just downright idiotic.

The stupidity of the AI and the serious limitations of the diplomacy in particular are the reason I have not even attempted to play this game as the developers intended since the 2nd day I bought it. Since then I have only played custom maps, but even that is annoying in the extreme. I hate having to continually restart my games in order to mod out some other annoying tendency.

On another note - and to get back on topic - although the AI does often use naval power somewhat effectively - it is still prone to the "send one galley with 1 chariot on it to the other side of the world to attack me when I have AEGIS cruisers and am supplying them with all of their raw materials and luxury goods." Not only is their strategy flawed, they sometimes make the most inane use of the resources I give them.

Some other interesting tidbits - I created a "Corsair" unit that functions as an ancient era privateer. The AI absolutely loves to build these! The Americans currently have 35 corsairs and 20 galley's sailing in the seas around their shores. The Chinese and Carthaginians each have another 20 corsairs out there. The Portuguese and Dutch have another dozen each. In all, I would estimate there are close to 200 Corsairs out there - and most Civilizations have only had them available for about 10 turns. The Vikings seem to be scampering about playing wack-a-mole trying to get them all (they have longships). It certainly is a dangerous world out there... I think it is probably a pretty realistic depiction of the extent of piracy in the ancient world.

 

[Bleser]

There is a serious difference between thinking you can win - and taking a reasoned risk - and just being stupid. In this case, the AI knows I am building Panzers, when its best unit is the swordsman. Under what risk calculation can it possibly win?

If the AI were being opportunistic, that would be one thing - but there should be something to keep it from being just downright idiotic.

I think what you are reffering to is usually the AI thinking it is being opportunistic. Whenever the AI does the lone-swordsman-from-across-the world dropoff to me, it is usually right next to an undefended and highly valuable city of mine - like my capitol - that I have undefended since I am in a government where military police have no effect (like Republic or Democracy). In the rare event that I could not rush a unit or get some units back to defend that city in one turn, the AI would have just destroyed all the culture-bearing imporvments in that important city - or even raze it entirely. That certainly would be bad for me, but this almost never happens since I am able to rush enough units to fend off this lone attacker. At that point in time, however, the AI doesn't know that.

 

[charlesolmsted]

The AI already knows where all your units are. Regardless of my government type, every single city of mine always has a garrison - usually at least 4 spearman/pikeman/muskets/rifles/infantry - and often more than that. So, the AI can never be intending to capture an unguarded city. It is possible they are coming all that way for an unguarded worker, but they always seem to go straight for the nearest city once they land. They are coming half way around the world to attack their best friend... This must stop in Civ IV.