Does wiping out a civ incur warmonger points with civs that neither of you have met yet?

[blackcatatonic]

Title should be fairly self-explanatory.

I haven't had much experience with this game as sadly I've found the late game to be a bit of a boring slog, but returning to it recently I encountered this situation. I started alone on a small continent with Australia; he attacked me and as the continent was short of luxuries, I decided to wipe him out. At this point I'd met four other Civs, all of which have had me on perma-denounce since then (which is fair enough).

However, since then I've met five other Civs. Gilgamesh loves me because Gilga-bro, Gandhi is neutral-tending towards friendly, Gorgo can't quite make her mind up, and Cleopatra and Peter have both denounced me citing 'warmonger' as the reason. Now, I have not engaged in any warfare at all since John Curtin met his sticky end. So naturally the only possible explanation is that they are referring to that incident.

I haven't played enough Civ 6 yet to understand how the warmonger points work now, but in Civ 5 you could be fairly assured of a peaceful, diplomatic existence if you killed your neighbours quickly before you had met more distant AI Civs. Am I correct in assuming that this approach is no longer possible, and wiping out AIs - no matter how early, or even if you haven't met anyone else - is now pretty much a no-no diplomatically?

(And yes, I know genocide is bad but it seems to me a little odd that Civs should hold killing one AI in the Medieval era against you, when you didn't meet them until Atomic.)

 

[nicki_boy777]

You will suffer warmonger diplomatic penalties with civilizations you have met. And as you suggested I understand that no diplomatic penalties with any unmet civilizations (regardless of whether the civ you are attacking have established contact with them or not),

 

[Forster]

I am not too sure about that. I have met civs after I cleared my continent of any AIs. The turn I meet them it is okay, but the very next turn I am a warmonger.

 

[gettingfat]

No, I don't think so. I always clean up my continent and deliberately delay sending out units to the ocean until I've cleaned up the blood off my hands. The key is to send delegate, open border and make favorable deals immediately when meeting the new friends from the other continents.

 

[unpossible251]

my scythians flattened france in the anceint era after marie dow'd me, then I was alone until late medieval. everyone I met was super friendly through the renaissance and industrial era, despite never sending delegates or trade. i think because they didnt see me take the french, so as far as they're concerned it never happened.

 

[Victoria]

The issue comes where I take out Scythia without meeting anyone but they have met India.

 

[Felis Renidens]

I once conquered my continent before meeting the civs on the other continent - they were all friendly to me.

 

[Disgustipated]

I got denounced by India as a warmonger even though I met them the turn after I finished conquering China (which was my last war I initiated and my last city taken). It seems India did hear from other civilizations about my war.

If you notice, sometimes you will get notifications of war of civilizations you have not met yet. I once got a notification the Aztecs declared war on somebody despite me not having met the Aztecs yet.

This is most likely a bug, and not intended.

I think it only happens on wars very recent before you meet the other civs, and I think it only happens when that civ has a delegation with the civ you declared war on (this may actually be intended and not a bug now I think of it).

for the record I was on island plates map, but I was inland, so I couldn't build ships and meet other AI's, but other AI's had met each other. I think the key here is if the civ you declared war on has met the civ's you have not met.

 

[blackcatatonic]

Mixed reports then.

I don't think the 'recentness' of the war or the first meeting has much to do with it, as the Cleo and Peter were the last two of those 5 who I met. Saying that, Gandhi - the first one I met after killing Australia - has now also denounced me for being a warmonger, as has Hojo, who I met quite a long time after finishing the war. After we met, Gandhi hung around on friendly for a long time before randomly denouncing me, whereas Cleo and Hojo both denounced within a few turns of meeting (Hojo before I could even ask for an embassy). Gilgamesh and Gorgo are now both declared friends with no indication that they either know or care about my genocidal past.

I suspect as a couple of you have said that it might be related to who Australia had managed to meet before I killed them off. Would be nice if these things were a little less opaque!

 

[Victoria]

Yes, it is who they meet from quite a few similar circumstances. Also if you look at who it was, Hojo amd china are most likely to mee Oz early, China was prob not in the game and Cleo often builds galleys

 

[Felis Renidens]

It can be slightly less opaque if you send a delegation (I sometimes hear that a civilization I have sent a delegation to got a delegation from a civ I did not meet yet). A trade route will give some more info although I don't do it much. But it's easy to miss important gossip. I hope they will bring back adviser screens. I also probably need a Civ2 style trade adviser yelling at me to build more traders but that's just me.

 

[blackcatatonic]

Yes, it is who they meet from quite a few similar circumstances. Also if you look at who it was, Hojo amd china are most likely to mee Oz early, China was prob not in the game and Cleo often builds galleys

Yeah, I was playing as China. I deliberately didn't explore early because I was hoping to avoid meeting people who would denounce me if I killed Australia. Didn't work out so well

It can be slightly less opaque if you send a delegation (I sometimes hear that a civilization I have sent a delegation to got a delegation from a civ I did not meet yet). A trade route will give some more info although I don't do it much. But it's easy to miss important gossip. I hope they will bring back adviser screens. I also probably need a Civ2 style trade adviser yelling at me to build more traders but that's just me.

Yeah, I really dislike the new gossip notifications, especially when you get tons and they fill up the entire screen. The Civ 5 ones were much easier to follow.

I always try to send an embassy out as soon as I meet someone as they tend to agree if they have literally just met you, but I've found that if I forget to do it the first turn after meeting, they will always refuse. I wish there was an option to go straight to the diplomacy menu from the intro screen you get on meeting a new Civ.

 

[Felis Renidens]

Yeah, I really dislike the new gossip notifications, especially when you get tons and they fill up the entire screen. The Civ 5 ones were much easier to follow.

I always try to send an embassy out as soon as I meet someone as they tend to agree if they have literally just met you, but I've found that if I forget to do it the first turn after meeting, they will always refuse. I wish there was an option to go straight to the diplomacy menu from the intro screen you get on meeting a new Civ.

Oh yes! Very much so. Basically whenever a leader pops up to tell me something let me get to the diplomacy window to allow me to do something about it. And if we are at it - give the dialog about spying after I know if the spy was captured or not so that I'll be able to negotiate his or her release. And when proposing a deal let me know how good the AI thinks it is. Those small things can matter a lot in a game. Right now the game does it's best to distract me away from diplomacy. It requires lots of focus, a good memory and willingness to scroll through tiny details at the side of the screen to have some idea what you are doing, and really easy to neglect it.

 

[Victoria]

Now I am playing diplomacy well the game falls into the good guys vs the bad guys quite often

I have found that when someone DOW's me and I just go in and loot the ground to give me a boost and slow them down, another Ally quite happily plays the damn warmonger.
Still allies give me such awesome map intelligence, good deals amd some safety as they cannot DOW me that its worth all the effort of being in the playpen with them

 

[ShakaKhan]

It might (need verification) also have something to do with whether you keep their cities or raze them. I noticed that while the ancient era warring is supposed to accrue no warmonger penalties, I'm often considered a warmongerer during the ancient era if I raze too many cities.

Therefore, it might be that if you "purify" your continent and keep all cities before meeting the other continent, you have a clean slate with your new potential friends. If you burn all the cities to clear your path on your own continent, the other continent will be more reluctant.

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

About India, Gandhi will know if you've been warmongering even if he never met you or your poor victim. Probably because his agenda is coded differently than the warmonger penalty.

Apart from him, if you haven't met each other when you wiped out a civ, you won't have diplomatic penalties with them.