Maybe Civilization should have no Civs.

[Gori the Grey]

How can we know the dancer from the dance?

 

[Gorbles]

Same as above. Also I highlight that there needs to be a good, consistent design vision for how they want their game to be. What they don't want is conflicting visions, half-finished concepts and lots of back-end drama (As we have heard from reviews.)
Also, it's not strictly that I don't like it, but that the majority of players don't like it (In Its Current Implementation) and so the game is falling off in numbers. Also, it's objectively a large change.

1UPT was also, objectively, a large change. I stand by all comparisons in that regard.

As for "back-end drama", we have a single Glassdoor review. Maybe two (a year apart, in different departments, doesn't really speak to an aligned, coherent description of drama). Out of what, 200+ employees according to LinkedIn? I really urge caution in believing in stuff that seems believable because it aligns with the release of a particular product.

I don't believe there's anything really conflicting in VII. I do agree about it not being finished, and I've been very clear about where I think responsibility for that falls (2K, generally). I think the lack of polish, the lack of a finished UI, and the corresponding lack of signposting of game mechanics (through the UI) contribute to make everything feel worse. What individual players feel worse about varies significantly (according to Steam reviews). Yes, the Age design features in negative reviews, but so do a bunch of different things. Just as 1UPT still features in negative comments from the demographic that never moved past Civ IV to this very day. On this very forum!

But I'm getting into off-topic stuff. Don't want to sidetrack your thread too much, sorry.

 

[uppi]

Alright, hear me out!
I'm just as attached to all the different Civs and Leaders as anybody else. But there seems to be some unsolvable issue between those who want Civs to be appropriate to each age and those who want the same Civ forever.
There's going to be this disconnect that splits the playerbase down the middle.

My suggestion is very stupid but I think it would be so crazy as to work. Simply 'remove' the Civilisations and instead let the player name and customise their Civilisation to the absolute maximum.

Instead, Civs became a choice of name, flag, colours, architecture and so on. Exactly like the older games. But there's now an emphasis on making a custom Civ with a choice for a preset 'real' Civ.

The leaders would stay. Now you can pick whatever leader you want, and they come with all the bonuses relating to their nation and personality and so on.

The AI would choose a preset that matches their Leader. But of course the Nations are just skins and they have no literal meaning.

Because we've separated them like this, you can play as anything you want. Pick the name, choose a flag or make your own, pick the colour, pick the architecture.

Is it too stupid that it would be dumb or is it so stupid that maybe it could be fun?

That is just like having a leaders coupled to civilizations but with extra steps? If I have Napoleon with bonuses inspired by France, why would I want to call it China? Why not just call it France?

Honestly, why fix what isn't broken? The formula has been popular and successful for a quarter of a century. Sometimes it's just not as complicated as people make it out to be.

But it was broken to some degree. Some civilizations had uniques which always came too late to make a difference. Others had a very small window in which their unique was useful and if you could not capitalize on that, you just had a generic civs.

 

[Krikkit1]

That is just like having a leaders coupled to civilizations but with extra steps? If I have Napoleon with bonuses inspired by France, why would I want to call it China? Why not just call it France?

I think a Key idea is there is a player choice.

You should have the civ name (bundled with city list and graphics) each era be what ever you want

-Match the uniques (Ben Franklin of Mongols in Exploration) [First default]
-What you had last age (Ben Franklin of Rome in Exploration) [Second default]
-What matches your Leader (Ben Franklin of America in Exploration) [Second default on your first age]
-Customize (Ben Franklin of Brazil in Exploration...uses Carthage City list+Graphics and then customized name)

and then next era you choose new uniques and then choose to the name you want for your empire again... could change, could stay the same)