Doesn't the AI Overpay for Resources?

[Peacemongerer]

I'm not talking about the fact they take luxuries from you, I'm fine with that. I've used it a bunch of times and only just now did the math to see how much the AI gets robbed.

They'll pay 240 gold (8 per turn) to get 4 happiness per turn when a Colliseum is 2 happiness for 1 gpt. I could see them being willing to pay for luxuries at 240 if they ran out of happiness buildings, but none of them give happiness to gold at less than a 1:1 ratio, letalone the 1:2 ratio they get from luxuries.

Not really seeing why they programmed the AI to take it at such a high clip. In theory, they should only be willing to pay 60 gold to get resources (90 if they have the Protectionism policy). Anybody know the logic behind why it's so high? Is it just to give players a level playing field at higher difficulties? Is it because of We Love the King Day?

 

[FeiLing]

Well if you already have a colloseum everywhere, where's the point to that math then?

I'm pretty sure the average amount the AI pays for Luxuries isn't based on their demands. They don't need happiness at all. They're cheating when it comes to happiness massively already. If they weren't programmed to buy lux they'd just cheat a bit more instead.

The 240g (standard speed) is very likely balanced around the fact, that you as a player would swim in happiness from just straight up paying the AI for all of their lux if the price was a laughable 60-90g like you suggested.

 

[HelloGoodbye123]

I believe its based on how much they like you. They will offer more if they are friendly, and they will offer a lot less if they are guarded.

I play quick speed, and it never goes to 240g, that seems way too much, it might got 100-150 if they are "neutral/friendly" and they might go 60-80 if they are guarded.

opening borders/embassy could cost 25g each, maybe 30-35 if they are friendly with you.

and iron sells like gold, because they love it! and if they ever do war you, all the iron gets reverted back to you, and there swords are just halfed in power!

 

[FeiLing]

@HelloGoodbye123, for quick the standard price for lux is 200. Never more. Only less if you were a bad boy. 60-80 already is when you have been at war in the past or are going to be at war in the next few turns. Sometimes they'd still pay 200 though even though they hate you and dow you a few turns later (just trying to hide the upcoming assault).

Your border opened is always maximum worth 50g or less (doesn't depend on game speed but otherwise behaves similar to lux value). The AI of course may ask for more than that. Usually 75g or 100g. If they even hate you more they won't sell it at all.

Embassies are always 25g afaik, no matter what.

 

[HelloGoodbye123]

@HelloGoodbye123, for quick the standard price for lux is 200. Never more. Only less if you were a bad boy. 60-80 already is when you have been at war in the past or are going to be at war in the next few turns. Sometimes they'd still pay 200 though even though they hate you and dow you a few turns later (just trying to hide the upcoming assault).

Your border opened is always maximum worth 50g or less (doesn't depend on game speed but otherwise behaves similar to lux value). The AI of course may ask for more than that. Usually 75g or 100g. If they even hate you more they won't sell it at all.

Embassies are always 25g afaik, no matter what.

lies! the AI gave me 24g for my embassy once !
lol

anyways, what I hate is that sometimes you might offer 2 lux for 1 lux, even if they got copy and they will deny, after they do, I like to click "what could make this work" and they bring up 4 of my lux and a chunk of gold ! now thats a rip of !

 

[Peacemongerer]

Standard has been 240 for me consistently. I know it's totally independent of demand and part of a fixed trade value they give the AI somewhere in the XMLs, I'm just wondering why they set it so incredibly high given that the AI barely needs it (Golden Ages, I suppose?) and can get happiness from better spots at a cheaper clip if it needs it that badly.

I suppose if you take the Colliseum cost in hammers and say that not having to build a colliseum to get those 2 happiness is worth something, using the 4 hammers = 1 gold rate, a colliseum is a better gold value per happiness than a luxury before even a single luxury agreement was over (80 hammers = 20 gold + 1 gpt for 2 happiness per turn costs less than 2 gold per happiness per turn after 21 turns).

 

[Uberfrog]

I'm fairly sure, as FeiLing suggests, the price is set by what the player needs to pay to get the happiness bonus, not the AI. If you could get a new luxury for 60-90 gold that would be ridiculous. Also it's important to remember that luxuries apply on top of, not instead of Collosseums, so the maths logic of the OP doesn't really apply.

The AI offers the same for your luxuries so they value luxury-for-luxury trades properly, I guess. It only makes sense that they pay the same you do.

 

[Peacemongerer]

The on-top of vs. parallel thing isn't what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that if I can build a colliseum and pay 1 gpt maintanence, or the AI does the same, I've paid 30 gold to get 2 happiness over 30 turns, or 60 happiness = 30 gold, a rate of 0.5 gold to get two happiness, since in civ money buys happiness.

The reason I point to the cost of luxuries is that buying them represents an oppourtunity cost... you're buying them instead of investing that 240 gold in maintaining a colliseum or another happiness structure. Luxuries give you +4 happiness for 30 turns, or 120 over the life of the deal. That's 2 gold per happiness earned with the added downside that you can get DoWed or the trade partner loses the resource and you get nothing. That means a luxury at 240 gold can be substituted for 2 colliseums to get the same happiness and pay only 60 gold over a 30-turn period. A 4:1 ratio makes it a smarter bet mathematically. That's what I mean.

Now if you have already maxed-out happiness buildings, then I suppose the only way to get more happiness pronto is luxuries. But the AI is programmed to buy them mindlessly from the player, regardless of need or value, only based on whether they like a player enough to pay full price for them. That's purposeful that the AI does this and while selling luxuries to the AI should definitely remain a game mechanic, it seems odd you'd program it to take a deal that's 4x worse than what they could be getting.

 

[nefloyd]

240g, or 83 + 5/turn, or 58 + 5/turn + embassy is standard offer

 

[ggmoyang]

Is it just to give players a level playing field at higher difficulties?

This. You know, there is Arabian UB and Netherlands UA, which is useless if you don't sell lux.

Once the cost was 300, which made higher difficulty not-so-hard, so they nerfed to 240.

 

[Erneiz Hyde]

The on-top of vs. parallel thing isn't what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that if I can build a colliseum and pay 1 gpt maintanence, or the AI does the same, I've paid 30 gold to get 2 happiness over 30 turns, or 60 happiness = 30 gold, a rate of 0.5 gold to get two happiness, since in civ money buys happiness.

The reason I point to the cost of luxuries is that buying them represents an oppourtunity cost... you're buying them instead of investing that 240 gold in maintaining a colliseum or another happiness structure. Luxuries give you +4 happiness for 30 turns, or 120 over the life of the deal. That's 2 gold per happiness earned with the added downside that you can get DoWed or the trade partner loses the resource and you get nothing. That means a luxury at 240 gold can be substituted for 2 colliseums to get the same happiness and pay only 60 gold over a 30-turn period. A 4:1 ratio makes it a smarter bet mathematically. That's what I mean.

Now if you have already maxed-out happiness buildings, then I suppose the only way to get more happiness pronto is luxuries. But the AI is programmed to buy them mindlessly from the player, regardless of need or value, only based on whether they like a player enough to pay full price for them. That's purposeful that the AI does this and while selling luxuries to the AI should definitely remain a game mechanic, it seems odd you'd program it to take a deal that's 4x worse than what they could be getting.

You forgot to add in the hammer(gold?) cost of Coloseums. If you take those into account the AI paid LESS than what those worth. Oh, maybe take account of the time it takes to improve the resource (if we take the cost of improving an allied strategic resource which is 200G). Or maybe these prices are just what these luxuries worth. The price of luxuries is more of a factor for human players since we are the ones who need the money (or happiness).

 

[Syntax Error]

If anything, they overvalue the worth of their own resources. You'll offer your whole economy, your first born, an arm, a leg and the kitchen sink, on top of your last copy of a luxury to get the last copy of one of theirs.

 

[Babri]

I'm not talking about the fact they take luxuries from you, I'm fine with that. I've used it a bunch of times and only just now did the math to see how much the AI gets robbed.

They'll pay 240 gold (8 per turn) to get 4 happiness per turn when a Colliseum is 2 happiness for 1 gpt. I could see them being willing to pay for luxuries at 240 if they ran out of happiness buildings, but none of them give happiness to gold at less than a 1:1 ratio, letalone the 1:2 ratio they get from luxuries.

Not really seeing why they programmed the AI to take it at such a high clip. In theory, they should only be willing to pay 60 gold to get resources (90 if they have the Protectionism policy). Anybody know the logic behind why it's so high? Is it just to give players a level playing field at higher difficulties? Is it because of We Love the King Day?

U are spending production or a lump of gold to build collesium other than its maintenance cost. U should include that as well when doing math.
U are importing something so that should be expensive.
As another poster said that for instance it cost around 60-90 then u could simply buy tons of luxuries & rex like crazy.

 

[GrayingGamer]

Logic doesn't really apply here at all... the AI hardly ever struggles with happiness. Unless you factor in the possibility that the AI needs a resource to fulfill a CS quest (not sure they even do this), most of the time the AI should never buy luxuries from you. They should laugh at your broke-ness while they build golden warriors to fling at your city gates.

 

[Furycrab]

I think we often neglect the actual value of extra happy. It's still 120 towards a goldenage to buy a resource off someone. (Standard Speed) The AI gets loaded off of them real quick. However they also get a ton of bonus happy to go with it.