Domen vs Camikaze

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: This thread has had two edits, otherwise it is straight out of the appeal forum. The first edit was the removal of all PM's sent by Domen and this was done at his request. The second edit was the addition of the internal infraction log data to allow you to see the original post and the reason it was infracted.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889


This is an appeal of an infraction (please see internal infraction thread) given to Domen by Camikaze of 3 Permanent Points, raising his total to 17 and triggering a 2-week ban.

edit - extract of Internal Infraction Log added in spoilers below as members cannot see the link above:

Spoiler :

Post: History Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread VII
User: Domen
Infraction: [non expiring] Trolling
Points: 3

Administrative Note:
Message to User:

The beginning of your post, in which you negatively reflect on Future PM's post #468, is an unacceptable attack on another poster.

This infraction triggers a two week ban. You are now on 17 permanent points. This is four points away from a permanent ban. This means that you probably have one more infraction in you before being removed from CivFanatics forever. Please use the next two weeks to carefully consider your posting style at this site. Although you should probably have been doing this before, from now on you certainly need to stop and think before each and every post you make about whether anything therein carries with it an even remote risk of infraction. Treading lightly is now required if you are to remain at this site.

Original Post:

I did not understand anything from your post #468, Future PM.

I mean, I'm not sure if you are serious and with mental problems, or just trolling and healthy?

Haplogroups can't differentiate between people that closely related anyway

Who do you mean by "people that closely related" - surely not Germans and Poles?

Manfred Kayser, "Significant genetic differentiation between Poland and Germany as revealed by Y-chromosome analysis", 2005, wrote:

"(...) The observed genetic differentiation was mainly, but not exclusively, due to the frequency distribution of two Y-SNP haplogroups and their associated Y-STR haplotypes: R1a, most frequent in Poland, and R1b, most frequent in Germany. (...)"

Krzysztof Rębała, "Contemporary paternal genetic landscape of Polish and German populations", 2013, only confirmed what Kayser wrote.

But in this sample of 139 Germans from former German territories which are now in Poland, haplogroup R1a was most frequent.

Not to mention that using a sample size of 139 over a population of 100 million is ludicrous.

What ???

I used a sample size of 139 over a population of some 9 million people (I don't know where did you get 100 million from).

A perfectly valid sample size given that for example Natalie Myres in her 2010 study used a sample of 321 for entire Germany (80,5 million people).

Also Dr Peter A. Underhill used a sample of 109 for entire Poland (38,5 million people) in his 2014 study on R1a haplogroup.

I find the Polish nationalist's claims about Germans displacing Poles in Polish lands unbelievable.

And once again I don't understand your point - which claims, what displacing, in which lands, when exactly ??? How can I guess if you mean displacing Poles in WW2, in the 1800s (rugi pruskie), or displacing Slavs in the Middle Ages (given that I mentioned German Medieval eastward expansion).

Be more precise next time.

If you mean WW2, then - if you don't believe - read Piotr Eberhardt, "Political Migrations On Polish Territories (1939-1950)":

http://rcin.org.pl/Content/15652/WA51_13607_r2011-nr12_Monografie.pdf

Not to mention forced labour in Germany, when millions of people were displaced from their homes to Nazi Germany:

http://www.heimatverein-haltern.de/page4_1933_UNRRA.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labour_under_German_rule_during_World_War_II

This appeal is about Domen's belief that he did not deserve this infraction.

The PM trail is quite long and was sent via PM in two parts.
Part 1:

Spoiler :

<PMs redacted>

Part 2:

Spoiler :

<PMs redacted>

 

[leif erikson]

I think he clearly insults Future PM and deserves this infraction.

What is more problematic is that he does not seem to believe he has done anything improper. If he cannot understand what the problem is after all this time, how can we expect any reform of his behavior?

 

[illram]

Exactly. This is why I think it is unwise to not uphold the entirety of other 4 points. This is just going to happen again, why wait?

Vote to uphold, obviously.

 

[ori]

This one is a clear cut case really - not withstanding the fact that Domen does not understand why it is a clear cut case. Calling someone either a troll or mentally challenged is sufficiently abusive to warrant an infraction and 3 permanent points are the standard for this on those on their last chance.

As such I vote uphold.

Also the reasoning he brings up as to why this is not warranted shows clearly that our message about civil posting behavior and the rules in general have not come accross and are unlikely to do so even if he gets a reprieve from his permanent ban for another last chance, so I share the view that offering that last chance is futile.

 

[Plotinus]

Obviously a warranted infraction, and I find his argument that asking someone if they're mentally ill or trolling is different from accusing them of being mentally ill or trolling so feeble as to be insulting in itself.

 

[leif erikson]

Checked with Camikaze and he has nothing further to add and consents to his PM's being being published.

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

I concur with leif erikson, Illram, Ori, and Plotinus above.

Vote to uphold

 

[leif erikson]

Just got this back via PM from Domen when I asked if he would consent to allow PM to be publishes as a part of this thread:
<PMs redacted>

It looks to me as though this will be upheld as it is unanimous, 5 - 0.

 

[leif erikson]

Sent the following PM to Domen and Camikaze:

Hi Domen and Camikaze,

The Appeal was reviewed by 2-Admins and 3-Supermods (not including Camikaze, he did not participate as he gave the infraction) and it was unanimously agreed that the 3-Permanent Point infraction was justified and will remain in place.

This notice does not include the infraction appeal of Bootstoot's action, as that is separate. You should be hearing about that appeal soon.

Should you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. Take care,
leif