Domestic Department - Term 2

[eyrei]

I have to agree with Shaitan's take on this. Should we start a "Constitutional Debate" thread? This one is supposed to be clean and easy to read.....

 

[Daaraa]

I'd have to agree. I came into this thread to read domestic department information. Not to wade through a constitutional debate.

 

[Cyc]

Eyrei, now that the Provincial Borders have been "unofficially" approved by the Cabinet, shouldn't we start an election of Governors so that we can have 3 new Governors by Saturday's turn chat?

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Cyc
Eyrei, now that the Provincial Borders have been "unofficially" approved by the Cabinet, shouldn't we start an election of Governors so that we can have 3 new Governors by Saturday's turn chat?

Most certainly, however, the mods are supposed to post the elections....

 

[chiefpaco]

Not sure the best thread to debate your point, Justus. I can sum up my reaction though, because I don't think the advantage outweighs the cost.

I don't think our new towns will be close enough to our palace to be very productive. Spending this much will not result in gaining enough gold back to make it worthwhile, I think. There are no resources or luxuries in the new region we do not already have. Furthermore, we can get a "free" connection by building a road between them in perhaps a little longer a time than it would by building harbours.

While I like harbours in our new towns, to ensure transport of goods when roads are severed, I don't think these towns are valuable enough to put that much money into.

That said, if a priority existed for using workers to unite our provinces, I'd support that. I also support making a harbour in our homeland, so we can also trade with other empires with harbours.

 

[Chieftess]

Originally posted by Shaitan
That's an excellent idea, Justus, and very well laid out. My main concern right now is China. My plans were to court the Iroquois for a counter to possible future Chinese agression. If we can set a trade deal with China that would be an excellent step towards keeping them from nipping at our heels. I would be willing to postpone Foreign Affair's plans for a chat turn if Trade can guarantee a deal will be struck with China. That is, if China doesn't have enough cash/income to make a decent deal, we may have to give them a luxury for next to nothing (or nothing, if it comes to that).

Chieftess, what say you?

The shortest route looks like 1 plains, and 2 mountains

Time for quickest completion: (Civantoria to El-amarna)

1 mountian w/5 workers = 1 turn (workers 3 & 4 take 2 turns, so 4 is a waste unless we have a 5th)
1 hill w/2 workers = 1 turn
(3 turns total)

Closest industrial workers = Fox Nest (9 American, 1 Chinese)
Min time to arrive at the first plains - 6 turns.

10 turns, plus 3 for road building, and another 2 to go to each mountain = 19 turns total. (Note, we only have 10 turns left with China on the ROP agreement)

We are making 68 per turn, 680 gold total (in 10 turns), if we were to save all of our gold.

Shailonega Harbor - 180 gold or 9 turns
El Amarna Harbor - 284

The China ROP ends in ten turns. Having a one turn windows is a little too close in my book. If we rush both:

364 gold. At 68 per turn (66 after the harbors)
We'll match that amount in 6 turns. Much better than having 1 turn to prepare for whatever China decides to do. In 9 turns after the purchase, we'll have 594, 660 in 10 turns. A deficit that we can make up for in trade, 9 turns turns before the Chinese ROP runs out. Depleting the Chinese cash reserves could better help our chances of keeping our "Egyptian cities" safe while we build up our defenses, and allow us to build/upgrade to better units, if applicable.

So, yes, I'm for build the harbors. It's one of the goals for the Trade Department.

 

[Civanator]

I'll go with the harbor rushing.

 

[Falcon02]

Anybody here think that unconnected incense between San Fransico and NY is being wasted while we have War Warriness?

I suggest we move to quickly connect it to the empire.

 

[Grey Fox]

Just as a note... there are Egyptian workers working on a road through the mountains.

 

[donsig]

originally posted by eyrei:

I have to agree with Shaitan's take on this. Should we start a "Constitutional Debate" thread? This one is supposed to be clean and easy to read.....

I think this is exactly the place for the constitutional debate since it was the domestic leader's post regarding the veto of a governor's build queue that started the debate.

originally posted by Shaitan:

Did I miss anything?

I also agree with Shaitan's take on things. It makes sense. The only thing Shaitan did not address was the question of chat reps being able to vote in spot polls or not. that discussion probably should have its own thread.

Re: rushing a harbor in El Arman.

Eyrei is attempting a budgetary process that gives each department something to spend as it sees fit. I'd prefer to see that continue rather than spend the whole treasury on one harbor. Let's take our time and build the roads to Egypt. That way our workers won't be cutting down the forests near our beloved capital.

 

[Shaitan]

Originally posted by donsig
The only thing Shaitan did not address was the question of chat reps being able to vote in spot polls or not.
[/B]

No, appointed reps should not have Council powers. They can speak for their department leaders as those leaders appointed them. They were not appointed by the electorate though so should not be allowed to speak for the citizens.

 

[Eklektikos]

Originally posted by Shaitan

No, appointed reps should not have Council powers. They can speak for their department leaders as those leaders appointed them. They were not appointed by the electorate though so should not be allowed to speak for the citizens.

If the deputy is the runner-up from the election he/she is not necessarily any more of a democratically elected official than the chat rep would be, particularly in instances where there were only two candidates for that position. Chat reps are granted that position by the choice of the elected department leader (unlike most of the deputies) so could possibly be considered a more legitimate representative of the will of the people. Just felt this point should be made.

 

[Cyc]

Excellent point, Eklektikos. I think you'll make a fine Governor.

 

[Justus II]

Not sure where exactly to post this, but I think it has the most to do with the domestic department. Noticed something interesting when I looked at the save game after the chat tonight. Our Egyptian cities are all connected, even though the road is not done!! The only way I can explain it is that they were connected by road with the Greeks, whom we have an ROP with. So, when we completed our harbor, we are connected to the Greek harbor, and through their roads, to our egyptian cities!

We are within 2 turns of completing our own road, but the main thing is that there are several cities (Abydos, Memphis, Helio, Byblos) where the workers are entertainers, but now that they have luxuries they don't need to be!

Also, Fox Nest has two entertainers, but doesn't need them now that it finished the cathedral, and NY doesn't need one, I guess because of the temple. Just a few things I noticed, but the harbor thing was weird, it took me a few minutes to figure it out.

 

[Chieftess]

That is wierd. Aren't you glad the Trade Department also supported building the harbor?

But, once we finish securing the roads, we'll have a definate trade route (connecting the extra resources) just incase a road is severed.

 

[Zur]

I am currently leading an expedition of Pheonatica's finest explorers, warriors and diplomats to count the resources in the known world.

A table of our findings has been sealed in a scroll using the most enduring Pheonatician wax and sent towards the palace in Fox Nest with a trustworthy carrier pigeon for Pheonatica's leaders to analyse.

I would like the input of the Domestic Department on suggestions for trades. Pls. see Trade Department thread:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=281448&t=9370#post281448

I have posted an excel table with a breakdown of resources for each civ and possible trades.

 

[chiefpaco]

PDX is currently building a cathedral. It has 2 entertainers & the citizens there long for some buidings that provide entertainment.

Current options are:
Cathedral - 6 content faces. Ready in 5 turns.
Marketplace - Bonus trade & 2 happy faces. Ready in 1 turn, sacrificing 10 shields.
Forbidden Palace - Additional Centre to our empire! Ready in 9 turns!

Which does the domestic department feel is most valuable? I ask here because it seems we do not have a governor in place there yet. I noticed the mayor there also suggesting the FP as a good alternative.

Perhaps the domestic dept wishes to poll? At least so if you are considering the FP. If not FP, then I ask that the FP location be immediately addressed as a priority issue & steps taken to ensure its construction begins as soon as possible.

 

[Cyc]

Good post chiefpaco. I vote for the Forbidden Palace.

 

[Chieftess]

Originally posted by Zur
I am currently leading an expedition of Pheonatica's finest explorers, warriors and diplomats to count the resources in the known world.

A table of our findings has been sealed in a scroll using the most enduring Pheonatician wax and sent towards the palace in Fox Nest with a trustworthy carrier pigeon for Pheonatica's leaders to analyse.

I would like the input of the Domestic Department on suggestions for trades. Pls. see Trade Department thread:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=281448&t=9370#post281448

I have posted an excel table with a breakdown of resources for each civ and possible trades.

Did you count resources that are under cities? (right click them). Some are "hidden".

 

[Zur]

Did you count resources that are under cities? (right click them). Some are "hidden"

Yes, my surveyors went digging under the cities too (when no one was looking).