Domestic discussion: City placement

[blackheart]

I'd say go NW. We'd get 2 coast squares max. We would still have both wheats and the possibility of any hills up north. We would also get another hill when the border expands.

I would also suggest N, save us the trouble of clearing the jungle.

 

[Comnenus]

I thought of going east, as well. It just wasn't one of the options offered.

 

[Falcon02]

NW we get 4 water tiles max, 2 min. (the figure of two assumes that the one to our west is a 1 tile lake)

North, saves us the trouble of clearning 1 jungle, but it ensures 2 or more jungles will be in the Capital's radius, which we will have to clear, and will likely be forced to clear early on by placing our capital there.

Moving East means there's only one jungle tile which we know will be in our radius, I doubt there's any more jungle to our east, however, that is speculation.

Comnenus, that's one of the reason we have discussions, just because the Leader doesn't suggest it in the first post, doesn't mean it's a bad, it just means there was some reason they didn't concider it. (ie. some disadvantage was found which seemed to them to be greater then the disadvantages of others or they just didn't even think of it.)

My guess is there is alot of uncertainty, about the position, because less of the land that way has been exposed.

 

[Epimethius]

Remember, for all we know that is an inland sea (a la Vo Mimbre inDG4), or a pair of one tile lakes (like near Montpellier). So lets stop assuming thats a coast. And since we're towards the tropics, chances are that is no little patch of jungle, its the edge of a large rainforest. Which means going north would waste a minimum of two tiles on jungle, possibly more. To the east we have desert, and to the south hills. I say we either stay put or go southeast. Among other things, it allows for a coastal port at the mouth of the river, should that be ocean.

 

[Chieftess]

For all technical purposes, it IS a coastline! That's what the tile is. Let's just go 1SE and settle. We'll need to work on that wheat ASAP (irragate first, then road, and then mine the next).

I think we can turn this one into a settler factory.

 

[Civman2004]

Due East is the best option IMHO. I don't see any real necessity to have a coastal city as the capital. We keep the river, it looks like there could be more grassland to the east, and we keep both wheat bonuses. Looks like there could be some desert to the north, but that's not too drastic.

The other consideration is where do we think our future cities are going to be? Looking at that map, I'd have to say there's probably not going to be many to the west. Moving east means the amount of "corruption free space" we waste on sea tiles is hopefully minimised.

To me, SE is the second best option. But I have a huge phobia of building on BG. I tend to try and find normal Grassland to build, as by building on it I effectively turn it into BG.

South to the hills might provide a nice defense bonus later...

 

[Zarn]

I would definately go SE, and allow the worker to work the tile it is on.

 

[Comnenus]

Due East is the best option ...

To me, SE is the second best option.

I agree with this opinion. That might be floodplain up there to the NE, which would be good for early growth. The drawback is there could be desert around as well.

The safe option would be to move SE.

I guess for these two it would come down to risk assessment.

 

[TimBentley]

An option not mentioned is moving the worker to investigate the terrain before deciding a certain spot to settle. I think the worker should not move; the settler moving SE looks good to me.

 

[Cyc]

If we move the Settler North and clear the Jungle, we turn a 2food tile into a Bonus Grassland. If we move SE we waste a shield as the BG will not be any different than planting the Settler in the Jungle. We'l still only get 1 shield and 2 food. So SE is a waste of a shield.

If you look at the mini-map, you can see we are fairly close to the Equator to the South. But we are only just starting to see Jungle. This is good! If we were a little or a lot further South and starting to see Jungle, we would know that there is a lot of Jungle between us and the Equator. What we see is a tell-tale sign of minimal Jungleland. This means there will be many tiles to the south that are non-Jungle and ready to expand/settle on. It also means that there is probably not a lot of Jungle to the North of us. All of these are good point, if true.

The only reason I can see for putting our Capital on the Coast is if we wanted to build the Colossus, and then later in the game collecting uncorrupted commerce off the water. This means nothing to me when we lose production and growth by giving up land tiles for this.

Due East would waste a natural 2 shield tile. We need that tile for production, plus the 10 shields when we cut it down.

To all of those who still think we're playing C3C, we're not. Irrigating that wheat before we're very close to Monarch (which is what I hope we're going for) is a complete waste of time. Only mining benefits us at this time.

Moving onto any BG is a waste of a natural shield. Why do it? Moving onto the grassland to the SW moves us away from the river and a wheat. So does the hill to the South.

THE most efficient move we could make is onto the Jungle to the North. We get the free shield, the river, both wheats, so we'll have plenty of growth and production. Moving towards the Jungle is not going to be a problem, as we know the Jungle is minimal in this area. We're probably going to be expanding to the south, looking for a place to put the FP. So the Jungle isn't going to be a major problem. That's my opinion any way. Settler to the North and plant, Worker stays put and mines the Wheat.

 

[Civman2004]

Moving towards the Jungle is not going to be a problem, as we know the Jungle is minimal in this area. We're probably going to be expanding to the south, looking for a place to put the FP. So the Jungle isn't going to be a major problem. That's my opinion any way. Settler to the North and plant, Worker stays put and mines the Wheat.

You probably have a fair bit more Civ experience than me, Cyc, but I tend to find that where there's 1 jungle, there's hundreds of jungles. Especially when we're this close to the equator. I agree with your assessment that we'll be looking to plant FP in the south. Due east wouldn't necessarily "waste" the 2 sheild tile - I prefer to think of it as "saving it for later on". I assume we'll want a city or 15 along that coastline, so it will be used later.

I agree with your statement about the worker. I think whatever we do, settler stays put and mines the wheat, then road, and mine the other wheat and road it. The only possible exception that I can think of, is if we were tossing up between E and SE, so we moved the worker onto the other wheat to see what's to the east. That way it's only wasting 1 worker move, as the worker can start on that wheat first instead.

 

[Cyc]

You probably have a fair bit more Civ experience than me, Cyc, but I tend to find that where there's 1 jungle, there's hundreds of jungles. Especially when we're this close to the equator.

Well, of course there's going to be more Jungle. But what are we? 3 tiles South of the Equator? And we're on grassland, have a forest tile, hills, more grasslands, more hills and another forest tile in view. That's not a lot of Jungle tiles to be seen so close to the Equator. I've seen maps that had nothing BUT Jungle forever 7 or so tiles South of the Equator. We are in an area of minimal Jungle being so close to the Equator.

BTW, Settlers can't mine. And you want to use a natural 2 shield tile up for a city location when we'll desperately need it for immediate production purposes?

 

[Ankka]

I'd personally move the worker East to see what's there and then decide.

 

[Provolution]

I will stick with the Domestic Minister, and several others on Southeast, for several reasons, and the main ones are of course economical, but also a question of scalability, strategic flexibility and the immediate expansion into southern areas for settlement.

As we can see directly south, is a range of hills, where there is a very bountiful and fertile river basin with two bonus foodplains, with a jungle to the North. East and Southeast, there is some forest as well as the famous SE tile many of us want.

The main point with SE, is that we can quickly send the first warrior southwards on that range of hills, and scout double distances in this new settlement region. It is most likely we will continue southwards, as we are just south of the equator, with Jungle in the North. Long term, building by the base of those hills, will signify that this city can produce enormous amounts of shields, supported by the river and foodplains when we discover Monarchy and so on. The religious bonus makes government change early in the game very attractive, as Anarchy and so on is reduced to one turn.

Most likely, both iron and horses would be found to the south, as well as the most arable land. And I see no need to waste the jungle shields on building a settlement, as working the tile with a worker will speed up any building process in place.
That range of hills may also let us quickly to connect to iron even faster, as I suspect South to have more hills than North, at least from what we can see.'

Just throwing in my 2 Yen

 

[Chieftess]

Moving the worker east will lose us 3 turns of an irragated floodplain, when we could be growing. (it's just that I like to micromanage in my games... )

 

[Noldodan]

Due to time constraints, I will post a poll on this subject late tonight. This poll will be open until a couple hours until the chat starts to give me time to post the instructions.

 

[Fier Canadien]

Moving the worker east will lose us 3 turns of an irragated floodplain, when we could be growing. (it's just that I like to micromanage in my games... )

Huh?

Don't we have the irrigation penalty in Despotism?

Meaning we won't benefit from the irrigation untill Monarchy/Republic...

 

[DaveShack]

Huh?

Don't we have the irrigation penalty in Despotism?

Meaning we won't benefit from the irrigation untill Monarchy/Republic...

Irrigating a tile which started out with 3 and was penalized to 2, will result in it being increased to 4 and penalized to 3. Irrigating a wheat on grassland will result in 4 food (2+2+1, penalized by 1). We need +4 food for a 5 turn factory, though it will be a while before we have the 6 shields and granary to go with it.

 

[DaveShack]

I am opposed to building on a bonus grassland, because we lose the extra shield and the one thing we'll be in danger of being short of is immediately useful shields on two food tiles. Instead, I would advocate moving E and building on the forest, which keeps the BG and moves us slightly farther from the coast, giving a little better spacing for the cities to the W.

 

[Cyc]

I am opposed to building on a bonus grassland, because we lose the extra shield and the one thing we'll be in danger of being short of is immediately useful shields on two food tiles. Instead, I would advocate moving E and building on the forest, which keeps the BG and moves us slightly farther from the coast, giving a little better spacing for the cities to the W.

You don't want to use a BG for settlement because you'll waste a shield, but you'll use the 2 shield forest to settle. DaveShack, occasionally you'll have to switch a laborer to the forest for the extra shield. Don't burn the forest.