Domestic Instructions 11/16

[FionnMcCumhall]

Should my decisions on where to place a settler coming from Eklekt (cant spell that for the life of me) been overrided by a council vote when in the constitution is says:
D.Department Leaders share several powers and responsibilities, regardless of department.
4.Formulate departmental policies, plans and agendas of their own in the absence of citizen feedback (forum outage, low participation, etc). . Since there was an outage and low participation on the poll i MADE a DOMESTIC DEPARTMENT decision, that was ignored by Octavian X by doing a council vote. Personally i saw that as a violation but im told it isnt, I say Let the citizens decide and debate this.

Im sick and tired of everyone telling me the rules of the game and how we follow them. What we dont do is follow the spirit of the game. Leaders dont get to make any decisions on their own anymore because if someone doesnt like it we can hold a spot vote and say screw the leaders decision and lets implement our own, had i continued with the chat and not gone on to watch my movie maybe the vote would have turned out diffrent but i also said we should stop the chat, shoot there shouldnt have even been a chat last night it should have been pushed back due to the forum outage. And as that poll was affected by forum outage it was my duty to decide what to do and i gave clear instructions on where to place it. my 2 cents ill get off my soapbox

 

[naervod]

According to COL-3-G-1, a Council Spot Vote is an Administrative Council Vote carried out in a turn chat and an Administrative Council vote is can override an elected officials instructions according to COL-3-B-2.
In COL-3-B-1 it says it is called by the President but since Shaitan wasn't there, it passes down the CoC to the Vice President Octavian X. What he did was legal.

 

[FionnMcCumhall]

ok hey you know what im done. It doesnt matter what he did was legal or not what he did was wrong. Nobody listened to me at all during that chat so why should they start by doing so now. Im seriously considering resigning all my positions because of all the BS in this game. It says we are supposed to challenge the rules and here i am doing so. This isnt about weather or not he violated the rules its about having rules like that in place. Diagree with a leaderand the leader can have instructions removed because the DP doesnt want to move a settler or a unit per leaders instructions. That vote was a run around on the rules I made the Domestic Departments decision and was overuled because they just wanted to get it over with. What a way to play the game

 

[Octavian X]

Basically, you suggest that in a democracy game, we should listen to a single person when making decisions. I assure you, everybody knows what you said, and we took it seriously. In fact, the Dacula settler is on its way to the dyes, and the Kuhkaff settler is on it's way north.
Fionn, I apoligize if I've upset you, but please understand my actions.

 

[Cyc]

Ok, Fionn. I realize you're upset. Please listen to what I have to say.

The crux of the matter wasn't to ignore you or the Domestic Department. You are a well respected Leader in this community, and have been for a while. We did not ignore you in doing the spot vote. What we did was uphold the will of the people. The citizens of Fanatika voted in an official poll to have that Settler placed on the Incense. The redirect poll, which was run later, didn't reach quorum, so it did not become binding. With the auto-move option applied to the Settler's movement points, the Settler moved to the chosen area as directed by the poll. Your decision to ignore the poll results were actually a violation of the rules set down for your position. I would also suspect that you went against the Department Leaders wishes of having the next city be placed on the Incense.

So in actuality, Fionn, our spot poll was not only an effort to follow the will of the people, but to keep your *ss out of the slinger. Relax, take a deep breath, and try to accept what has happened as something good.

 

[FionnMcCumhall]

But i gave explicit intructions otherwise so no you didnt listen to me, you chose to be not to name call lazy. instead you have a coucil vote to override my decision becasue you didnt want to move the settler like i said to, So in fact no one listened to me had they of done so they would have voted no

 

[FionnMcCumhall]

@cyc it diodnt reach forum because of a forum outage therefore it was my right to change it. And it was to keep my *ass out of a sling I was well within my rights. The least we couldnt have done was not have the turn chat as sceduled and made it for the next day.

 

[Cyc]

Just in case you missed it, Fionn, read post #51 in this thread.

 

[FionnMcCumhall]

what thread your missing a link and another point i missed the will of the people were changing their minds with the redirection poll. Go figure therefore we went against the people by A0 having the turnchat despite there was a forum outage and b because the poll probably would have passed we ignored it becasue it didnt pass because of a forum outage. In case nbo one has read it i dont care about the spot vote, its a minor propblem to the fact we held a turn chat that should have been postponed til the next day at the very least so that poll could have reached a quorum. Just because its sceduled that day doesnt mean we have to run it that day and the forum outage at least should have been taken into consideration

 

[disorganizer]

Just a side-comment:
The Poll for the redirect was official and binding, AND it did not have to reach any quorum because it was stated as quick-poll.
(emergency time-critical)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36780

So maybe its a case for judicacy? Or just a slap with the "dont do this again" sign?

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

No, it still had to reach quick poll quorum, which was 12.

 

[FionnMcCumhall]

and it probably would have had the forum had not been out

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

I agree, it probably would.

However, it didn't. That's what we have to go on.

 

[FionnMcCumhall]

no not go on, do something about it so it doesnt happen again. Your making it sound like we should just sweep this under the rug so to speak bill. Thats only makes the problems worse. We should be nipping this kind of situtation in the butt before we have another issue like it again and i promise it will happen again, call it a hunch.

 

[Cyc]

Fionn - Just because the poll was almost binding doesn't mean it was. That's like being almost pregnant. Either you are or you aren't. (not you, but someone qualified!) Because the poll wasn't binding, you as a leader needed to abide by the last binding poll on the issue, which stated the next city would be placed on the incense, with the Settler in Eklektechtitlan. Period. You are bound by the rules that Govern your office to follow the will of the citizenry. Period. You are not allowed to interpret causes or time frames or discrepancies in the name of your office. You were informed of this in the t/c. You ignored this information too. Now you want to drag it all out again. Plus you're telling the CJ he's approaching the problem you have with the system in a legally incorrect way. You haven't taken that deep breath yet, have you Fionn.

 

[Cyc]

Oh, and Dis, thanks for the rule clarification on the quick poll. Very timely and informative.

 

[disorganizer]

Well, in fact the wronggoing here was that the chat was held at all...

So YALP:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36999

 

[FionnMcCumhall]

So your saying that since the forum was out i cant make a decision based on if that poll would or would not have based even tho it needed that one vote. I disagree, and i took the deep breath. Arent citizens supposed to challege something when they think it is wrong or have we all forgotten that? We dont challenege it be cause its law and forget trying to make new law its cut and dry. Imagine if the lawyers in the world knew that then they couldnt come up ideas that are in the "spirit" of the law. But it seems very obvious im in the minority yet again on thi, altho clearly in the poll i had posted it was looking like i was in the right because what i was doing was common sense

 

[Cyc]

Quotin Fionn:
Arent citizens supposed to challege something when they think it is wrong or have we all forgotten that? We dont challenege it be cause its law and forget trying to make new law its cut and dry.
__________________________________________

No one cares if you try to change a law or attempt some effort to make things better for Fanatika. It's when you ignore the Laws the rest of us abide by that we become aggressive. Try this Fionn, don't like standing in line at the bank? Pull out a gun and walk to the closest teller demanding your money. When they come to arrest you, you can say you didn't like the law, and that it should be changed. Trust me, that would be one of your better days.

Dis - please post the law that says the t/c shouldn't have been played, right here, right now, please...

 

[FionnMcCumhall]

Originally posted by Cyc

No one cares if you try to change a law or attempt some effort to make things better for Fanatika.

Thats a very cynical way to think of things. Im trying to point out mistakes and your saying nobody cares well im guessing thats true so im dropping the subject. Im also considering not returning to the game after my terms are up since no one really cares to try to better Fanatika.