Domination and Corruption

[Master Shake]

So different governments don't seem to be making any real difference in corruption levels (Communism excepted). And courthouses don't seem to be doing much either, once I get very far from my capitol and/or FP.

It seems there is no way to *not* have around half of my cities down at the one-shield/one-commerce level.

I read an article which said WLTKD "beats" corruption. I am not having this notion confirmed in my games. (And it doesn't look like WLTKD has *any* effect on sheild corruption though I may be wrong.)

Any thoughts on how to get over the corruption/waste thing? I have usually played for cultural, space or diplomatic victories in the past. I decided for a change to play the Mongols "in character" so to speak, and to go for an eventual domination victory. But I don't see how I can maintain an empire when over half of it is completely unable to produce any goods.

I have always wondered why people seem so eager to raze cities when they conquer them. Now I think I see at least part of it--they are going after conquest instead of domination because taking over cities is alot harder and more costly than just destroying them. But I just don't *like* the idea of destroying everything. I want to build it back up.

Any ideas?

-mS

 

[Louis XXIV]

The OCN (optimal city count) says how many cities you can have before corruption become rediculous. If you are above this amount, don't expect to build anything in new cities (rush build, or disband units).

 

[Bamspeedy]

Just don't put anything of any real value in those super-corrupt cities. They will produce a minimum of 1 gold, so if there isn't any buildings in them, you come out ahead. You can also irrigate them and make taxmen in those cities to make even more money, or to help pay for the temple and if needed an aqueduct or marketplace.

People prefer to raze mainly for 2 reasons:
1. To prevent culture flips.
2. Prevent domination. (they want conquest, or some other victory condition instead.

 

[sgrig]

Originally posted by Bamspeedy
Just don't put anything of any real value in those super-corrupt cities. They will produce a minimum of 1 gold, so if there isn't any buildings in them, you come out ahead. You can also irrigate them and make taxmen in those cities to make even more money, or to help pay for the temple and if needed an aqueduct or marketplace.

People prefer to raze mainly for 2 reasons:
1. To prevent culture flips.
2. Prevent domination. (they want conquest, or some other victory condition instead.

Or to take revenge on a hated enemy by killing all his/her population!

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I always felt that it would be great to have small wonders which can actually INCREASE the OCN above the one set in your editor! Such small wonders would be especially valuable for improving the 'output' of your 'Colonial Holdings'! After all, if Spain, Britain and Rome could all have productive empires, spread across more than 3/4 of the known world, then shouldn't this be somehow simulated in Civ3?
Speaking of which, though, if you have a Wonder which counts as an improvemnt in every city (like a courthouse or a police station), how much will these additional improvements reduce corruption if you're already above the OCN? Perhaps if no-one knows the answer to these questions, could someone perhaps direct me to an appropriate thread on the subject !!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Balastulin]

Originally posted by Aussie_Lurker
I always felt that it would be great to have small wonders which can actually INCREASE the OCN above the one set in your editor! Such small wonders would be especially valuable for improving the 'output' of your 'Colonial Holdings'! After all, if Spain, Britain and Rome could all have productive empires, spread across more than 3/4 of the known world, then shouldn't this be somehow simulated in Civ3?
Speaking of which, though, if you have a Wonder which counts as an improvemnt in every city (like a courthouse or a police station), how much will these additional improvements reduce corruption if you're already above the OCN? Perhaps if no-one knows the answer to these questions, could someone perhaps direct me to an appropriate thread on the subject !!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

Maybe an 'Imperial' style of government?

The British set up governments in Australia, India, everywhere that they had empire. Montreal was the second city of the empire for a long time and gangster-ridden Shanghai as extraordinarily productive.

Perhaps a Metropolis should have an effect in reducing the corruption in the cities around it, beyond any benefits from Forbiddens, etc.

Written from a thoroughly uncorrupt Melbourne...

 

[cmaz]

Keep in mind, Master Shake, that C3C's introduction of the civil engineer specialty citizen helps off-set that problem a bit. Each civil engineer produces 2 incorruptible shields for the city it's in.

In a recent game I finished with the Incas I had approximately 58% of the land territory, a good deal of which I took through conquest and a fair portion of it overseas from my capital city. While the "worst" cities (i.e.; only producing one shield at base) never got a whole lot better, using even one civil engineer made a significant difference, and three or four was even better. These cities were never excellent producers, but they weren't totally useless either. The downsides are that : a) every civil engineer is not producing food, meaning that you'll trade-off growth for production, b) you'll have to micromanage your conquered domains to insure that you have whatever balance of population and production is ideal, and c) you have to remember that the production menus (both right-click from the world map and from the city map) don't include C.E. contributions in the projected build time; you have to select the unit for production to see the "true" time.

If you're willing to put in the time with the C.E.'s, maybe your dream of Mongols as world-builders instead of just conquerors can be realized. Good luck with it!

 

[TerraHero]

I never had much coruption loss either..i even had the Iroquious (spelling?) capitol. And it was my second largest city and nr1 producer..it never revolted and never want into disorder

Quite fascinating seeing as i conquered it when i was quite weak and had low culture...and yet they worshipped me as a god.

 

[Duantalus]

You could also try increasing the optimal number of cities, altering the Percent of optimal cities, changing the corruption slider, giving other buildings the reduces corruption flag, or make more small wonders act as additional capitols.

 

[ybbor]

Originally posted by Duantalus
You could also try increasing the optimal number of cities, altering the Percent of optimal cities, changing the corruption slider, giving other buildings the reduces corruption flag, or make more small wonders act as additional capitols.

or maybe you could set wonders like the forbidden palace put a couthouse on every city {on the same continent}

 

[kokoras]

Originally posted by ybbor

or maybe you could set wonders like the forbidden palace put a couthouse on every city {on the same continent}

Talking of F.P.Does anyone knows if the bug mentioned(for F.P-Corruption)is still out there?Has been released any official statement on this matter,or there was no problem from the beging?

 

[Masquerouge]

Originally posted by cmaz
Keep in mind, Master Shake, that C3C's introduction of the civil engineer specialty citizen helps off-set that problem a bit. Each civil engineer produces 2 incorruptible shields for the city it's in.

Oooh yes you're right. I just love these guys. Beginning to grow a fetish for them.
They're ll the more useful now that corruption is bugged.

 

[alexman]

Originally posted by Aussie_Lurker
Speaking of which, though, if you have a Wonder which counts as an improvemnt in every city (like a courthouse or a police station), how much will these additional improvements reduce corruption if you're already above the OCN?

Adding a courthouse in every city has the same effect as going to the editor and increasing the OCN by 25%, and at the same time cutting the distance of all your cities to your Palace in half. (Forget the FP for now, as it's not working properly in any version of Civ3).

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Hey, thanks for that info Alexman ! Well then, my idea is to try and have Small Wonders which count as an improvement in every city! I KNOW this is not currently possible with the editor as it now stands ! I hope, though, that Firaxis will finally give in and grant this ability to Small Wonders ! Even if they don't, though, Warpstorm has informed me that you can work around it by constructing it as a Great Wonder, then changing it to a small wonder! Apparently, though the flags grey out, they still remain checked, and carry over to the small wonder!!!
Anyway, my idea is to have a host of Gov-Specific Small Wonders which are dependant both on number of cities, and the presence of a Palace-all of which count as a corruption reducing improvement!
Here are some examples:

Empire (Requires Imperialism tech, Palace, and Civ size=12): Counts as a Garrison and a Governers Palace in EVERY city. (Garrison is an ancient police station (but reduces happiness), a Governers mansion reduces corruption and War Weariness, and increases culture). Empire also has Continental Mood effects! Exp. with Nationalism.
Parliament (Requires Democracy Tech, Palace and Democracy Gov. City size=16): Counts as Parliamentary Representation in every city on Same Continent (Parliamentary Representation is an 'Improvement' that gives 1 happy face, and reduces corruption and War Weariness). Also grants Continental Mood Effects.
Senate: (Requires Parliament): Counts as 'Senate Representation' in every city on same Continent. (Again, an 'improvement' that reduces Corruption, and grants a happy face!) Continental Mood effects!
OK so, as you can see, if you do this, you'll not only have lots of small wonders which can help you conquer unhappiness, war weariness and corruption in a large nation or empire, you also have a FANTASTIC way of making the capital VERY important! What do you guys reckon?

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[tomart109]

Good ideas, all. But that seems a lot of trouble to reduce the (imho) obscenely excessive waste/corruption. Just use the slider. I find between 50% and 75% of the standard waste/corruption is more sensible.

Go try out the Age of Discovery Conquest, where they reduced W/C themselves, in order to make overseas colonies actually worth building, and actually productive [what a concept!!! why not bring this excellent idea back into the main game??]

I love big empires, and so their small OCN is simply a stupid, restrictive punishment, in my view. As someone's excellent analysis once concluded, (paraphrase) Those who build large empires don't see any way around the problem; those with small civs wonder what the problem is.

And I especially resent the need to use the brutally reduced production of the 1-shield cities to build things that REDUCE THE REDUCTION. ........Please!!!!