[NFP] Domination Victory Elimination Thread

[BenitoChavez]

Alexander/Macedon [28] = 27 + 1. Everything about Alex is geared towards war and it all works well together.
Amanitore/Nubia [22]
Chandragupta/India [16]
Cyrus/Persia [20]
Frederick/Germany [15]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [23]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria [20] - I believe he should be at 20 after post #189.
John Curtin/Australia [8]
Kupe/Maori [7]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [29]
Montezuma/Aztec [23]
Philip/Spain [ELIMINATED] = 3 - 3. I'll put Philip out of his misery. Conquistadors are awesome but take a lot of setup to pull off properly. Nothing else about his kit screams domination.
Seondeok/Korea [13]
Shaka/Zulu [26]
Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [36]
Suleiman/Ottomans [30]
Tomyris/Scythia [20]
Trajan/Rome [17]

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

Sad to see Peter go, as his faith-bought Cossack Corps can really wreak havoc. However, requiring horses for Cossacks really put the brakes on him. You can't just spam so many units now, as strategic resources are the bottle neck.

Alexander/Macedon [28]
Amanitore/Nubia [23] (22+1) A straightforward civ that makes Dom a breeze. Their archers are arguably the best UU in the game. They get production bonuses, as well as building districts faster, so they have an easier time getting through the science and civics tree better than a lot of other Dom civs.
Chandragupta/India [16]
Cyrus/Persia [20]
Frederick/Germany [15]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [23]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria [20]
John Curtin/Australia [5] (8-3) I'm a fan of using high Science civs for Dom, but I think Korea edges them out when it comes to this strategy. Dom victories are all about starting war on your terms, and using surprise wars effectively, in which Curtin's ability doesn't help with. Diggers are strong, but are one of the latest UUs in the game, so I don't know how relevant they can be overall. Australia is a top tier civ, flexible in every victory type, but at this point in the game there is too much competition from civs that do so much better with domination especially.
Kupe/Maori [7]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [29]
Montezuma/Aztec [23]
Seondeok/Korea [13]
Shaka/Zulu [26]
Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [36]
Suleiman/Ottomans [30]
Tomyris/Scythia [20]
Trajan/Rome [17]

 

[monikernemo]

Alexander/Macedon [28]
Amanitore/Nubia [23]
Chandragupta/India [16]
Cyrus/Persia [20]
Frederick/Germany [15]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [23]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria [20]
John Curtin/Australia [5]
Kupe/Maori [7]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [29]
Montezuma/Aztec [23]
Seondeok/Korea [10] (13-3) Korea should be the next to go on the list. Yes science is important but it is not the sole factor. Other factors should be taken into account too for instance ability to create military easily (scythia, Hungary), snow balling early game (Rome, Nubia, germany), substantial power spikes (e.g. oligarchy with legion/toa/immortal, corps with UU replacement calvaries). Korea is clearly lacking in all of these departments.

If not any sci oriented civ should also be considered as a top contender.
Shaka/Zulu [26]
Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [37](36 + 1)
Turbo boosting everything is really fun. Commandant's Generals are really powerful too. True strength comes from the number of turns you save when you can promote and attack on the same turn and move siege units and attack with them on the same damn turn.
Suleiman/Ottomans [30]
Tomyris/Scythia [20]
Trajan/Rome [17]

 

[kryat]

Alexander/Macedon [28]
Amanitore/Nubia [23]
Chandragupta/India [16]
Cyrus/Persia [20]
Frederick/Germany [15]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [23]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria [20]
John Curtin/Australia [5]
Kupe/Maori [7]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [29]
Montezuma/Aztec [23]
Seondeok/Korea [7] (10-3) I’ll second that science isn’t everything. Korea deserves to be this high, but not much higher. They don’t have great production, they have mediocre culture, less than stellar gold and faith, and no attack bonus barring technological superiority. They’re great at science, but even then, the ones with attack bonuses can match them, and probably overwhelm them. Once the domination focused ones take a few cities, they can catch Korea in science thanks to ICS.
Shaka/Zulu [26]
Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [37]
Suleiman/Ottomans [30]
Tomyris/Scythia [21] (20+1) The healing is a pretty strong effect here. Damaged units do less on attack and take more on defense. And Tomyris truly benefits from this the entire game. She’s probably not in the top 3 (likely Ghengis, Simon, and Suleiman), but she might be in the top 5.

 

[pjotroos]

Alexander/Macedon [28]
Amanitore/Nubia [23]
Chandragupta/India [17] (16+1) Chandra is starting to slip closer to the exit. Don't sleep on him. Once you set his casus belli up, by leaving couple of neighbors half-dead, you can keep the perk up full time. Varu come at just the right time, too. Strong, and lots of fun to play.
Cyrus/Persia [20]
Frederick/Germany [15]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [23]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria [20]
John Curtin/Australia [5]
Kupe/Maori [7]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [29]
Montezuma/Aztec [23]
Seondeok/Korea [4] (7-3) It was between her and Kupe, but given I've already downvoted Maori once, I'll continue the pile on. Australia should hang about for a little longer. Curtin can match her in science with most of the starts, and he'll likely be declared on to give him the extra production that gets the snowball rolling.
Shaka/Zulu [26]
Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [37]
Suleiman/Ottomans [30]
Tomyris/Scythia [21]

 

[fredrikslicer]

Alexander/Macedon [28]
Amanitore/Nubia [23]
Chandragupta/India [17]
Cyrus/Persia [20]
Frederick/Germany [15]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [23]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria [21] (20+1) Same as before
John Curtin/Australia [5]
Kupe/Maori [4] (7-3) Aside from navy heavy maps I struggle to see his usefulness
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [29]
Montezuma/Aztec [23]
Seondeok/Korea [4]
Shaka/Zulu [26]
Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [37]
Suleiman/Ottomans [30]
Tomyris/Scythia [21]

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Alexander/Macedon [28]
Amanitore/Nubia [23]
Chandragupta/India [14=17-3] Not better than Gandhi. If you eliminate Gandhi please do it together with this one.
Cyrus/Persia [20]
Frederick/Germany [15]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [23]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria [21]
John Curtin/Australia [5]
Kupe/Maori [4]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [29]
Montezuma/Aztec [23]
Seondeok/Korea [5=4+1] Hwacha rush is not the best, but definitely better than many listed here.
Shaka/Zulu [26]
Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [37]
Suleiman/Ottomans [30]
Tomyris/Scythia [21]

 

[Weraptor]

Alexander/Macedon [28]
Amanitore/Nubia [23]
Chandragupta/India [14]
Cyrus/Persia [21] (20+1) A pretty solid pick.
Frederick/Germany [15]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [23]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria [21]
John Curtin/Australia [5]
Kupe/Maori [4]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [29]
Montezuma/Aztec [23]
Seondeok/Korea [2] (5-3) Let's just get this over with.
Shaka/Zulu [26]
Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [37]
Suleiman/Ottomans [30]
Tomyris/Scythia [21]

 

[Solver]

Alexander/Macedon [28]
Amanitore/Nubia [23]
Chandragupta/India [14]
Cyrus/Persia [21]
Frederick/Germany [15]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [23]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria [21]
John Curtin/Australia [5]
Kupe/Maori [4]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [29]
Montezuma/Aztec [23]
Seondeok/Korea ELIMINATED (2-3) Time to go - she's not a domination leader, but her massive science advantage gives her a good overall ranking anyway.
Shaka/Zulu [26]
Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [37]
Suleiman/Ottomans [30]
Tomyris/Scythia [22] (21 + 1) I'd rank Tomyris above Montezuma and Gilgamesh at least. She's very fast at early domination in every sense of "fast". Free units make her fast to build an army, her typical army is fast-moving cavalry, and the healing bonus makes her faster at actually conquering land.

 

[Drivingrevilo]

Alexander/Macedon [28]
Amanitore/Nubia [23]
Chandragupta/India [11] (14-3) 100% better than Gandhi, despite the guy repeatedly claiming otherwise. But still, I think he’s probably the weakest of the warring Civs remaining, if only because it’s not always possible to activate the requirements for war of territorial expansion.
Cyrus/Persia [21]
Frederick/Germany [15]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [23]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria [21]
John Curtin/Australia [6] (5+1) I was about to post this message as an upvote for Seondeok when Solver posted. So I’ll transfer the vote to Curtin, the next best science Civ, but the sentiment applies to Korea:
I realise it’s pointless preaching to this crowd (“Norway is an S Tier civ”, pretty much says it all), but whatever. High science is the best way to win domination, period. On Deity, where the AI already enjoys increased yields and a permanent +4 combat strength advantage, there’s no point having a neat movement boost, or +5 CS, or a fancy unique unit, *unless* you’re equal or beating the AI in tech. And Korea is hands down the best science Civ in the game.

Kupe/Maori [4]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [29]
Montezuma/Aztec [23]
Shaka/Zulu [26]
Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [37]
Suleiman/Ottomans [30]
Tomyris/Scythia [22]

 

[CrabHelmet]

Alexander/Macedon [28]
Amanitore/Nubia [23]
Chandragupta/India [14]
Cyrus/Persia [21]
Frederick/Germany [15]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [23]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria [21]
John Curtin/Australia [7] (6+1) As said above, science is life on higher difficulty levels when attempting Deity. People sleeping on the power of leaders like Curtin and Seondeok should really gave a game a whirl. Curtin might have a medicore UU for domination, but he has significant infrastructure advantages available from very early on and the production boosts available from his ability are good if a litte circumstantial.
Kupe/Maori [1] (4-3) I really love aggressive Kupe, it is one of the most fun ways to play Civ. Unfortunately, I think his time has now run out. Kupe's main advantage in Domination is the ability to aggressively forward settle with your capital, cut off expansion for the other Civ, and spam Toa at close range. However, this can very much be a double-edged sword as a strategy, whereas all the remaining Civs offer something a bit more consistent.
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [29]
Montezuma/Aztec [23]
Shaka/Zulu [26]
Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [37]
Suleiman/Ottomans [30]
Tomyris/Scythia [22]

 

[pjotroos]

@kryat accidentally cut off Trajan from the bottom of the list. He should be there at [17]

 

[Chefofrats]

Alexander/Macedon [28]
Amanitore/Nubia [23]
Chandragupta/India [14]
Cyrus/Persia [21]
Frederick/Germany [16] (15+1) - strong production to build units due to the Hansa, nice science (to get ahead in the arms race) and gold (for upkeep) due to the extra district per city. He really should be higher on the list at this stage.
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [23]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria [21]
John Curtin/Australia [7]
Kupe/Maori [Eliminated] (1-3) - the strong swordsman is nice, but no better than the what the other civs left here offer. Bye bye, Kupe.
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [29]
Montezuma/Aztec [23]
Shaka/Zulu [26]
Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [37]
Suleiman/Ottomans [30]
Tomyris/Scythia [22]
Trajan/Rome [17]

(re-added Trajan)

 

[Hokie Fan]

Alexander/Macedon [28]
Amanitore/Nubia [23]
Chandragupta/India [14]
Cyrus/Persia [21]
Frederick/Germany [16]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [23]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria [22] (21 + 1) - One of the fun things about Gilgamesh is that he's better on Deity than on lower levels because your early war-cart rush will typically net you three cities rather than two or one. His Ziggurats also give him an easy way to get science and culture without over investing in either.
John Curtin/Australia [4] (7-3) - His main advantages are science and culture. These are certainly powerful, but they're not specifically geared to domination. I like keeping civs that have something unique to bring to a domination victory rather than just really good civs that can win a domination victory simply because they're good.
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [29]
Montezuma/Aztec [23]
Shaka/Zulu [26]
Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [37]
Suleiman/Ottomans [30]
Tomyris/Scythia [22]
Trajan/Rome [17]

 

[TCBB]

@Drivingrevilo's vote against Chandragupta wasn't taken into account, he's on 11 not 14.

Alexander/Macedon [28]
Amanitore/Nubia [23]
Chandragupta/India [11]
Cyrus/Persia [22] (21+1) Purely because a boost to surprise wars is the most universally accessible bonus for a warmonger. Plus, Immortals rock.
Frederick/Germany [16]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [23]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria [22]
John Curtin/Australia [4]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [29]
Montezuma/Aztec [23]
Shaka/Zulu [26]
Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [37]
Suleiman/Ottomans [30]
Tomyris/Scythia [19] (22-3) Scythia's my favourite warmonger to play: I love roleplaying as a screaming horde of barbarian horsemen, descending onto my more advanced neighbour and sweeping them away with raw numbers. So for style, she definitely gets my vote. However, she's not perfect. I'm thinking of two points in particular. First, patch changes have hit Scythia pretty hard. One patch reconditioned the AI to prioritise anti-cavalry units, while another patch ruled that cavalry can't use battering rams/siege towers. When I played Scythia recently, I definitely noticed the effect of both changes: if you're going to successfully make use of her early cavalry threat, you basically have to rush someone with horsemen/saka horse archers before they get walls and/or pikemen. But this leads to the second point: it can be very difficult balancing this early time window with unit maintenance costs. Horsemen and saka horse archers cost 2 GPT to maintain. That's a lot of gold in the early game; and with Scythia's 'buy-one-get-one-free' mechanic, it can be difficult to balance her need to start warring quickly with the genuine threat of bankruptcy. Kurgans help to a degree, but what you really need is commercial hubs; yet waiting them comes with its own risk too. I think this places Scythia beneath other warmongers who don't need to worry as much about early GPT (e.g. Gilgamesh's war carts, Monty's eagle warriors, Amanitore's pitati, Hungary's leveed units), or who get a longer window to set up their infrastructure before they have to initiate conquest (e.g. Ottomans, Zulu, Persia, Germany, Mongolia).
Trajan/Rome [17]

 

[Leucarum]

Another day, another Australia vs Korea elimination thread. For what it's worth, despite normally siding with Korea I think they were eliminated in the right order this time.

Alexander/Macedon [28]
Amanitore/Nubia [23]
Chandragupta/India [11]
Cyrus/Persia [19] (22-3) I've always been underwhelmed by immortals - I recognize on paper how powerful they are but will downvote this time as they've never worked out for me when playing Persia.
Frederick/Germany [16]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [23]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria [22]
John Curtin/Australia [4]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [29]
Montezuma/Aztec [23]
Shaka/Zulu [26]
Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [37]
Suleiman/Ottomans [30]
Tomyris/Scythia [19]
Trajan/Rome [18] (17+1) And I'll throw and upvote at Trajan for legions chopping out more legions while free monuments get you to oligarchy quicker than your opponents.

 

[bengalryan9]

Alexander/Macedon [29] (28+1) Of course science matters a lot when going for domination, but it sure is weird who gets credit for science bonuses and who doesn't. Posters will sit around and praise Korea as the undisputed science leaders deserving of sticking around without ever giving any credit to all the other civs that also have huge advantages in science - folks like Gilgamesh, Harald, and perhaps most impressively of all when going for domination, Alexander. Free beakers to go along with every troop you train and free eurekas as you conquer cities, two things you're going to do a ton of when going for domination. Alex can outpace anyone, plus he gets two really good UUs to go right along with them. I've seen a lot of people post their idea of what the top 3 should be without mentioning Alex... not buying that for a second.
Amanitore/Nubia [23]
Chandragupta/India [11]
Cyrus/Persia [19]
Frederick/Germany [16] Not going to downvote yet, but in a game where upgrading existing units is the way to go I'm not sure the production advantage is as important for domination as others think it is.
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [23]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria [22]
John Curtin/Australia [1] (4-3) A great civ that can do it all, but at this point it's time for Australia to bow out. His science is impressive but can be matched by other warmongerers who have other advantages on top of it.
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [29]
Montezuma/Aztec [23]
Shaka/Zulu [26]
Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [37]
Suleiman/Ottomans [30]
Tomyris/Scythia [19]
Trajan/Rome [18]

 

[Civ Chemist]

Alexander/Macedon [29]
Amanitore/Nubia [23]
Chandragupta/India [12] (11+1): Should be way higher in my opinion. For a quick domination you need either more movement or higher CS. He gets both with his war of territorial expansion. And it's really not that difficult to trigger. Just play it smart and leave every civ you conquer with 2 bad cities, and you can chain his territorial war for the rest of the game. Everyone saying how powerful Gran Colombia is (and I agree), but he gets the exact same bonuses with his territorial war which applies to ALL units, not only those within range of a general.
Cyrus/Persia [19]
Frederick/Germany [13] (16-3): I think it's time for him to go. You don't really need mid game production for domination. By the time he has his high production Hansas up, other civs have already conquered their home continent. And what use is it to build a lot of units in your capital when they need 10-15+ turns to reach the frontline. Just move magnus to your conquered cities and chop out more units directly at the frontline or puchase them with your pillaged gold/faith. I guess the military slot is useful, but you don't really need that many anyway. With Autocracy you have all the military slots you really need.
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [23]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria [22]
John Curtin/Australia [1]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [29]: Not a downvote, just curious if anyone has played them since NFP. They were in my opinion the king of domination, but I'm not sure how the new focus of the AI on city states (making it harder to get early suzerains) changes their strenght.
Montezuma/Aztec [23]
Shaka/Zulu [26]
Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [37]
Suleiman/Ottomans [30]
Tomyris/Scythia [19]
Trajan/Rome [18]

 

[The Highwayman]

Alexander/Macedon [30] [29+1] Alex has all the ingredients: science boost from doing what every warmonger is going to do, units that thrive taking cities, and rewards once the job is done. The lack of war weariness either reduces or eliminates the negative yields in your empire as it's easier to stay content. The AI's persistence on beating you to all the wonders will be their undoing, as the free healing expedites the domination train.
Amanitore/Nubia [23]
Chandragupta/India [12]
Cyrus/Persia [19]
Frederick/Germany [10] [13-3] Magnus + the appropriate policy card is your production. With a proper balance of science, culture and economy, your early troops can be upgraded for the rest of the game. Whatever troops you need as a follow up in the mid/late game can be purchased with faith or gold. The extra military slot and district are definitely nice though. But the clock is ticking.
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [23]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria [22]
John Curtin/Australia [1]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [29]
Montezuma/Aztec [23]
Shaka/Zulu [26]
Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [37]
Suleiman/Ottomans [30]
Tomyris/Scythia [19]
Trajan/Rome [18]

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

Alexander/Macedon [31] (30+1) Alex should be in the top 3, IMO. The only real competition he has is Ottomans and GC. His war machine just starts rolling and doesn't have to stop.
Amanitore/Nubia [23]
Chandragupta/India [9] (12-3) Definitely the weakest of the domination-heavy civs. He has a decent power spike, but only for 10 turns. You can easily run out of steam halfway through a war and now you're down -2 movement and -5 CS, stranded deep in enemy territory. Territorial war of expansion is way too iffy and unreliable to make this leader viable in the game at this point.
Cyrus/Persia [19]
Frederick/Germany [10]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [23]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria [22]
John Curtin/Australia [1]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [29]
Montezuma/Aztec [23]
Shaka/Zulu [26]
Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [37]
Suleiman/Ottomans [30]
Tomyris/Scythia [19]
Trajan/Rome [18]