Dont you just wish... they hadn't used a 3d engine?

[Smidlee]

and who would have thought 10 years ago that in 2006 I would have more fun playing with 10 years old games than with modern games?

I remember how much fun I had playing C-64 back in the 80's. Then I pulled out my C-64 a while back and realizes just how bad the graphic were back then. Also these C-64 games aren't as much fun now as I remembered them. I bought the new Pirates (one of my favorite and most played C-64 games) but only play a few games even though the modern version is a big improvement. It's not that these older games was so much better but more likely I've just grown up.
I wouldn't have bought civ4 if it had the dated civ1 graphics. I love both good graphics and well as sound so i put my C-64 back in my closet.

 

[T.A JONES]

HI Smidlee Im not tryin to raz you, seriously I think Civ1 graphics are really weak not many could play for long Im wondering If youve ever played conquest trying a balanced mod. Some have upped the rendering for units and graphics, well keeping the exact feel, formula for the original,(change no rules)
Try the Balancer Reloaded for example it was included in CivComplete(minus the graphics patch) Surly if you seen where Civ3 has been taken you'd understand how I find it a hard sell that Civ3 graphics are not playable for this day and age. They keep getting better!

 

[Smidlee]

The biggest problem I have with Civ3 graphics now is it's runs only in one resolution :1024X768. (same with Heart of Iron and GalCiv1) Since My 19" LCD native resolution is 1280X1024 Civ3 doesn't look so hot on my new pc. Also I like how 3-d games zooms in and out better. Age of Wonders:SW (does run 1280X1024 though) had a totally useless zoom since all it did was blow up the 2-d image (the same way LCD blows up Civ3 image to fit it's native resolution.). The AOW image only look good at normal 100% zoom. So far I find 3-D game run in so many different resolutions and zoomed better than any 2-d game I've played.
Since there is so many gamers now have LCD instead of CRT monitors I believe going 3-D was a smart move for Firaxis to make. Not only did Civ4 went 3-d but also HOMM5 and GalCiv 2 as well.

 

[T.A JONES]

Smidlee Yer right on that point, some things can't be changed. I always wished to view the units and terrain in a closer context If you respond, please help explain the use of the refresh option. I tried lowering this from 75 to 70 it increased the size but I noticed the colours were slighty dull n' less crisp. Lower then 60 makes my screen freeze..
What you were saying before, Im happy to say Only a few days ago Ares de borg has released a new "Snoopys" terrain pack that uses a simulated satelite look with ,better geographic symetry and "real look" replica terrain. Mybe have a look some day. Its truly ground breaking(Joke) er, bad one,

Sorry what Im trying to say is how impressed I am on how far the community has improved on Civ3. So many members raise the standard that one can judge Conquest by the "FireAxis look and feel" Heres a good example,

One mod makes mining grassland impossable and coins the term work camp instead of mine, using the forest to compinsate for the lack of grassland it breaks the stategy mold and gives the a forest another purpose other then for chopping. This mod's called Rise n Rule and it still gets hundreds of downloads a day( I noticed the ticker!).
The biggest mistake some civ4 fans make is comparing the two sequals based on their assumption of the original "look". Civ3 was designed for mods. Mods redesigned Civ3, and whoever hasn't played it modded, havn't played the game so many are sticking up for.
The relaxed approach took in the modding aspects have paid in extending the longevity and feeding longterm interest and invlovment.. Once a games been around long enough it makes its even harder to forget(becomes ingrained in the gaming culture. Now The release of Civ4 has even pushed what I thought the limits of Civ3 were, even further. the original "vanilla un modded" look of is nothing in the wake of our artists renditions."
I think its in part to this "family" fued or better, friendly rivelry, between the two sequals. One has to impoce or be forgotten. All the superb pieces done by the great artists are comin out in droves and their effect will be to protect/continue the long legacy for some time to come. Thanks for listning

 

[warpstorm]

Civ3 was designed for mods.

Having modded Civ3, I have to heartily disagree. It is one of the least friendly modding environments I've worked with. It took my begging on PTW to get them to even put in scenario paths. If they didn't I probably would have given up on most of my mods.

 

[BadHorsie]

3d step was neccessary, one way or another. Play tetris if you dont like 3d

HOW was 3D necessary? Civ has always been about the gameplay, and has managed perfectly fine with 2D. I think that's what people liked about it. I did, anyway. I preferred 2D. It would run with no problems. There's no reason why you couldn't make 2D zooming...

 

[Catcher]

HOW was 3D necessary? Civ has always been about the gameplay, and has managed perfectly fine with 2D. I think that's what people liked about it. I did, anyway. I preferred 2D. It would run with no problems. There's no reason why you couldn't make 2D zooming...

Mig, take a quick look at the top ten sellers listed on the Main Page news. Then look at the monthly best seller list. Then look back through the archives at all the lists that have been posted since Civ IV came out. If you had an appropriate signon, you could probably tiptoe through all of NPD's archives but I'll save you the trouble: almost all the top sellers these days are 3D. Even The Sims, the poster child for low system requirements and compatability, went 3D with Sims 2. Besides the aforementioned money-time savings, the larger audience (that's the group of people about 10,000 times bigger than all the registered users on this Forum) expects 3D from any game that doesn't have the words "Hunter" or "Barbie" attached to it. BTW, zooming in 2D gets really ugly really quickly. Ever crashed into something in a sprite-based flight sim?

 

[JustAnotherUser]

Then continue playing the games ten years old while the rest of us move on.

Thanks, I'll do.
But it is not a race, you know? you don't win nothing if you play the last game that is come out when it come out, and while I'd like to play to Oblivion, I refuse to pay 200+ € for a new video card and god know what else just for it. In 2-3 year when (if) I'll have bought a new computer, I'll pick Oblivion, complete with all the patches and expansions at half price or less and play it, maybe I'll even find it in a games magazine like with I did with Morrowind for less than 10 €. At that moment people with more money and less patience than me will be probably playing the next chapter of The Elder Scrolls. Good for them. It is not like I am not having fun.

 

[T.A JONES]

Warpstorm I presume were both talkin Conquests? cause its the lastest representation of Civ3. Ptw is farther down in Civ Evolution,If so Im glad they listened to you, cause Conquest delivered masterpieces
Besides yours (I played you watercolour in PtW no? and a few others I think you'l notice all the of best mods came with the Conquest editer No Im not a good modder. but those moddest modders, these guys.. Worked magic with that ConqEdit

Im only repeating What I constantly hear. Mybe listen in to the other modders opinion's. Most are found in the Civ3 forum, Who going to support them over here?. Some take the "fanatics" part a little to seriously over here" (I don't mean you) In other places the voice of reason is being delivered time and time again. peeps just have to look at whats being made in the Civ3 forum to hear it.
I wonder what you think of Aries De borg's new terrain? Cool no? the level's bin raised signifiganly since vannila terrain, 2d on these higher levels is just what Civ3 needed right now.

 

[jim_bob]

no not rely.

 

[JustAnotherUser]

I remember how much fun I had playing C-64 back in the 80's. Then I pulled out my C-64 a while back and realizes just how bad the graphic were back then. Also these C-64 games aren't as much fun now as I remembered them. I bought the new Pirates (one of my favorite and most played C-64 games) but only play a few games even though the modern version is a big improvement. It's not that these older games was so much better but more likely I've just grown up.
I wouldn't have bought civ4 if it had the dated civ1 graphics. I love both good graphics and well as sound so i put my C-64 back in my closet.

they are totally different things, I started with the C64, too, but its games never fascinated me too much, I could see the potential in them but they never delivered, so to say. It is only with the PC that I started to enjoy videogames. and some of the games that I played then was simply good and still are, even with the outdated graphic. Civilization (first game I bought for PC), X-com, Populous II, the Ultima serie, master of magic, Harpoon, Syndicate, Magic carpet, DOOM (even after all these years the best straight FPS ever done), Outlaws (FPS western, the only one AFAIK and a great game), etc.
Graphics? sounds? They are nice, I guess, but I prefer them if they are functional, once they are not bad they are good enough to me (even if depend on the kind of game) because too much tend to get distracting and because, I don't know you, but me after 10-20 games I tend to ignore them, anyway, it is not that I don't see the graphic, but it tend to go over my head, so to speak.

 

[Pentium]

I agree with Sloz 100%. 3D graphics are a must for shooting, racing, and flight sims, but strategy games don't benefit from them at all. Nice-looking units aren't better in battle, and beautiful city improvements make my joy of taking that city no greater. After all, is there anything wrong with GalCiv?

If you're interested in looks, go play The Sims.

 

[tezster]

I agree with Sloz 100%. 3D graphics are a must for shooting, racing, and flight sims, but strategy games don't benefit from them at all. Nice-looking units aren't better in battle, and beautiful city improvements make my joy of taking that city no greater. After all, is there anything wrong with GalCiv?

If you're interested in looks, go play The Sims.

FYI GalCiv: Dreadlords is in fact in 3D

 

[Smidlee]

I. After all, is there anything wrong with GalCiv?

Brad mention the fact when they developed the first GalCiv they made the mistake of not dealing with graphics until the very end which he believes ended up costing him. He said this time he wasn't making the same mistake by working on Galciv2 graphics from the beginning of development instead at the end. So no doubt graphics does help a game get noticed which equals more sells. Most modern day TBS games are turning to 3-D so going 3-D must be a no brainer.
I also remember how many gamers complain about Galciv1 dated graphic when it first came out.
P.S. Brad also mentions that because GalCiv2 is 3-D he can make the AI better since it get the full use of CPU.

 

[warpstorm]

I presume were both talkin Conquests?

The company I work for made Conquests and the editor it used (which admittedly is based off of Firaxis' PTW editor). It is very limited, IMHO. It gave us fits trying to do what we wanted and we had the source code.

The approach that Firaxis used in Civ4 is much better. Nearly everything is exposed in very easy to modify fashion (using industry standard XML and 3D tools). In addition, they gave all of the Python source and much of the C++ code in their SDK. Yes, there is a bit of a learning curve, but once you are past it you can do so much more with Civ4.

 

[T.A JONES]

Holy Jeez Im talkin to a pro here! patches and all. Well anyway Its nice to know Im getting a profesional opinion ,still I wish you would agreed the 2d graphics have got a lot better. ideal for Civstyle strategy, yet not as impressive as Civ4's. Give simplicity to average modders and up goes the research into mods, making breakthroughs in gfx units, ideas, overall variety more plausible
,"Maybe its cause over the years and many Civ3 releases they have become very comfy with that conquest style bic.(like an great artist old uses a outdated paintbrush instead of the latest advanced bristles,or a auther uses the typerwriter, you know what I mean? More were able to draw out their artistic talent with out getting setback by lack of knowledge. or timetaxed into utter bordom trying to learn python script. I guess you were thinking Python is the only way to plan for the future, another way of saying it is we gota rough it out for now. eventually it pays off right.(just like conquest did with its mods late in the game) problem is I want good mods now I wish there was a way to draw more power out of the old editer.


The reason I asked your opinion on Ares was simply cause your both Artists who expanded the 2d world with your unique renditions. Yours in watercolour and his brand new "satalite view" simulation. We can't have 3d but for a game deep in strategy the added "real life look" of Ares'terrain is the same as adding another dimension for me. Thanks for listen, Take care
btw. I paid good $$ for Civ4 even though I don't play it, so even if you get mad me,remeber I helped contribute to your salary Joshing

 

[Willem]

Besides yours (I played you watercolour in PtW no? and a few others I think you'l notice all the of best mods came with the Conquest editer No Im not a good modder. but those moddest modders, these guys.. Worked magic with that ConqEdit

There wasn't that much of a difference between the PTW and Conquests editors. A few new features sure, but not enough to make a big difference in the mods each could produce. And what people will be able to do with Civ 4 will blow away any mod produced for Civ 3, especially now that the SDK is out.

 

[Willem]

btw. I paid good $$ for Civ4 even though I don't play it, so even if you get mad me,remeber I helped contribute to your salary Joshing

You're not paying his salary, Warpstorm works for Breakaway Games. They had nothing to do with Civ 4. That was all Firaxis.

 

[thenooblet22]

Actually I recently tried to play Civilization III and was disgusted on how the game looked and how it feeled.

 

[T.A JONES]

Sheesh things didn't go so well over here. Hmm, It was a tough crowd to begin with, but all in all I think your all good sports. I hope some day I'll find the reasons you all enjoy this game.then I can share in some of your opinions(instead of blastin them). I did learn one thing thats true after being quoted over and over in these Civ3 hate forums: My grammer could sure use some work
Sorry about the Fireaxis mixup Warpstorm when you mentioned working on Conquest and having the source code I just assumed it was modest way of sayin you were a Fireaxian, mybe a part timer. who knows, but take care. Im out for good.(loud cheers) I least I took the liberty of payin for a band to play at my "go away" party enjoy!