Double-Crossing Civ's


Mar 15, 2002
Pensacola, Florida, USA
I am Persia on a relatively small continent alone with Zululand. Other civ's are on other continents but haven't met either of us yet. I've been at war with Zulu for awhile (they started it). I was about to put the finishing blows to them when they offered a pretty lucrative deal to me if I signed a peace treaty; so I did. (It is like 600 BC or so and they gave me Writing, Worker(s), and 160GP (I'm broke right now due to big army) in their plea for me not to kill them).

But I'm thinking that I just built up a big army to wipe them out and I'm at their front door. China has just recently landed on the continent but is far enough away that they won't meet either of us right away. Can I double-cross Zululand on the peace treaty and wipe them out with-out any of the other Civilizations in the world finding out (since they haven't met us yet)? And therefore they wouldn't know to mistrust me in future dealings?

This is my first game on Regent level...I jumped to Regent after my first game at Chieftain (I won Space Race in 1991 AD). So I'm thinking I ought to get rid of Zulu while I have the chance and claim most of the continent for myself. Or maybe I should meet China first and maybe sell them contact with Zulu or something?

Basically, should I let Zulu live or die?
it doesnt matter if the other civs have met the zulu or not, if you break the treaty you will get a black mark on your record with the other civs.

that being said, why not just put a strong blockade of troops around the final zulu city, wait for the treaty to expire, and then take them out?
I wonder if I should just reload a saved game before I signed the peace treaty with them. Thier last city has like seven Silk Luxuries in it. I don't have silk...and then I could start trading it to China, Etc. before Zulu meets them. I just won't get the Writing Tech this way, and, it seems like you never really get all the Gold they have when you kill them off?

Like I said, this is my first Regent Game.....what strategy do you think is better...peace for now, or reload and kill them?
1.Continue in the current game (with peace treaty). You want to get that writing tech.

2.Sell the Chinese contact with the Zulu.

3.Kill the Zulu. They always start wars for no reason. Save yourself a future headache and destroy them while you can.

4.Settle the rest of that continent, STAT.

As for you rep, I try not to do anything too shady early in the game because you need allies. But there are certainly instances where backstabbing pays. You have to decide if the gain is worth the price. The AI doesn't care about doublecrossing you. A couple days ago I (America) was on a continent with Greece and India. The Greeks attack without provacation so I get an alliance with India. Our alliance experies and I pay 220 gold to renew it. 2-3 turns later the Indians, with about 50 war elephants in my territory, declare war on me. At this point its over, so I sit back and laughingly watch my civ get trampled.

Lesson: The AI is never your freind. They are just a means to achieve your geopolitical strategy.
Thanks Carver!

Hey, by the way...I see your from Largo....So am I! I grew up there, went to Largo High School (graduated 1987), and my parents still live there in Harbor Bluffs by the Belleair Causeway.

My nickname "Bridgeboy" comes from the fact that I'm an Engineer and I build first one was the 49th street Bridge which is known now as the Bayside Bridge across Tampa Bay.

Small World......

Oh yeah....what does STAT mean?
"Stat" is most oftenly heard in medical settings (or from fans of ER). It's an abbreviation for the Latin word "statim", which means immediately.
Thanks for the Bayside Bridge. I use it all the time. It's alot faster than going up US19 with all the stop lights.:) I've lived in Largo about 5 years after moving from Connecticut. Florida Rocks... the beach, the jetskis, the springbreakers :cool: .
Can I double-cross Zululand on the peace treaty and wipe them out with-out any of the other Civilizations in the world finding out (since they haven't met us yet)?

I don't think this should hurt your reputation, because when you sign the treaty there is a message that "This treaty will last until war is redeclared." It doesn't last 20 turns like a ROP or MPP or any luxury/money-per-turn trade, so breaking it is not technically breaking the "rules." I'm pretty sure it does hurt your rep, though, depending on how much time passes before you declare war again.

Also, I don't see how wiping out a civ before you have even contacted any other civs should hurt your reputation, but it does. In my current game, I forgot to cancel a Right of Passage before declaring war on the Americans. Although we and the Russians were the only ones on our island, and we hadn't discovered boats yet, all of the other civs found out about it even though I destroyed the evidence. It doesn't make sense, but it does make the game a little more fair, I guess.
Just break the treaty with the zulu and destroy them then sweaten up the other countries on the continent by offering them gifts to 'sweeten 'them up.This only buys you time thou be assured they will attack you eventually given your black mark so build up your army at every opportunitie.
Destroy the Zulu while you still can,and don't worry about your rep.
The AI is going to attack you anyway.
I have found that keeping a large millitary is the only thing the AI respects.

Destroy the Zulu.
They will respawn somewhere on the continent anyway : destroy them a second time.

AI is nothing but a nuisance when you have to share land.

Originally posted by Carver
...2.Sell the Chinese contact with the Zulu...

I would not do this. The Zulu could make an alliance with Mao. You might be able to finish off Shaka, but then you'd have to deal with the Chinese.
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