Double Scout?

[Voodoo111]

Lately I have found myself goin' with a double scout and I was wondering how many other people do this and what others think of it. I've experimented with a few different scouting approaches... one scout, no scout *cough* (waited for horsemen). Typically I play Emperor/standard/ Large continents or Pangaea frontier map.

I used to mainly go with one scout but inevitably he gets bogged down by barbs, if not killed. I tend to NOT do a double scout if I settle on a grassland or flood plains tile as then it takes 7 turns to churn out my scout. Typically, I try to avoid settling on these types of tiles and look for a production tile of some sort. Then it's 5 turns to a scout, 5 turns for another, which coincides with Pottery being researched so then i can either go to shrine or worker, maybe monument. Typically I go tradition opener so early culture buildings aren't a huge focus for me.

I have found that those 5 early turns are generally well spent as the 2nd scout runs into some ruins granting me a tech, maybe even faith, not to mention meeting CS, and getting out past culture borders of other civs. It seems like it has been working well for me, but maybe I could refine my early strat a bit so I'm looking for other's input on what they do, and if there are negative side effects of a double scout start long term that I am missing.

 

[FeiLing]

Depends on the map. If I knew it's a large pangeae or great plains etc (no islands/continents) then I'd go for 3 scouts pretty sure. On lower difficulties even 4. On higher difficulties rather just 2 (because you actually might need to defend plus like on deity all enemy civs spawn with 2 settlers, various warriors anda scout, so there won't be many ruins for you left anyway.

 

[Halcyan2]

I will build extra Scouts if I am playing as Spain or if I am playing an underpopulated Pangaea map (fewer players than normal).

I sometimes forego Scouts if I am playing an Archipelago or Ethiopia.

 

[Browd]

Ruins are nice, and when they are on you should claim your fair share, but meeting all of the AIs and CSs is just as, if not more, important. With only one scout (particularly on a pangea), I find my scout not able to explore everywhere before culture borders start to close. This is particularly an issue if my scout pops an upgrade ruin (as an archer, he's more valuable close to home busting barb camps and waiting to upgrade to a comp bow). A second scout can be really helpful to finish exploring the map.

 

[The Pilgrim]

I usually build two scouts, more often three. Not necessarily as my first build (scout first, monument, granary/shrine) and till I can build actually something valuable like archers or libraries, I can kick out a couple more. Really depends on the map. Lost of jungles/forests = automatic second early scout. Spain = double scout start on continents, triple on pangaea. Not Spain and mostly flat lands and or I don't have time (techs from lucky ruins), I let the warrior keep scouting and build another scout later. And I also tend to bring a scarcher back. He's too good to be fed to barbs. No scouts on archipelagos though. Duh...

 

[Crafty Bison]

Sometimes, I find it's especially useful when
1) It's a huge map
2) It's pangea
3) The age of the world is young, and/or it's wet (more forests, jungles, rivers and marshes) or you started in a rough terrain area.
4) You're Spain, or want to explore a lot quickly. I personally like doing it with the Maya too so I can tell more easily what pantheon to take and where to put cities.
5) You have an archer/x-bow UU (except incas), or decide to go super hard for a comp bow rush (with, say, a REXer like France or Netherlands). Also not terrrible with a swordsman UU, as it reduces the chance of a spear upgrade.
6) You've stacked the number of civs/CS's.
7) You pop a culture ruin before the first scout comes out.
Not so useful when
1) You got a warrior or spear UU.
2) You got an agressive forward settleing so and so right next to you.
3) The opposite of the above map settings.

With totally random setttings, I imagine I'd do it about 10% of the time.

Edit: On reading the above text - Oh yes, this is as a first build. May add 1 or 2 after as well depending on how everything is going etc.

 

[Buccaneer]

I used to build two early scouts all the time but not any more, even on pangaea. I just need to get building a worker asap (I don't do the steal thing). A scout is always my first build but then I pop out a couple scouts mid game (after Astronomy) when they are 1 build turn each.

 

[budweiser]

If it s pangea, I usually use 2, but probably should use more. Even now on continents, I think the 10 or so turns it takes to get the scouts out is worth it. They also count as military and can be used to attack in a limited manner.

 

[Moriarte]

I usually go scout --> worker, but am producing archer/warrior somewhere between t.20-30 for homeland defense. (and barb quests) The initial warrior & scout i use for scouting.

 

[budweiser]

Double scout will get you more huts which will give pop points, tech and gold. Also you meet more CS and AI in shorter time span. You can often buy the odd archer or warrior if you need it, but you may also get archer scouts. I think the dynamic it sets up is better. If you want a worker you can get a 'free' one from Liberty. I dont really like the slow workers you get from Tradition all that much. Perhaps this approach works better with Liberty.

 

[Buccaneer]

The initial warrior and scout can get all of the ruins in your vicinity without needing an extra scout. Then the scout can go find everyone on your landmass and pick up any ruins that the opponents have missed.

 

[Matthew.]

I use the initial warrior as a second scout. I often make it a priority to get archers up for the ~t50-60 rush by the AI, so no need to keep it around for defense. If barbs attack when I have no defense, the worst they can do is pillage a luxury I already have traded out forcing me to trade it out again for more cash (darn! )

I don't train scout first, and if the map looks to be closed off sometimes I won't bother with it. No point in wasting hammers just to have a scout sit around and do nothing.

 

[Moriarte]

I use the initial warrior as a second scout. I often make it a priority to get archers up for the ~t50-60 rush by the AI, so no need to keep it around for defense. If barbs attack when I have no defense, the worst they can do is pillage a luxury I already have traded out forcing me to trade it out again for more cash (darn! )

I don't train scout first, and if the map looks to be closed off sometimes I won't bother with it. No point in wasting hammers just to have a scout sit around and do nothing.

Yes, but you can pick early optics and swim around these obstacles to meet a bunch of civs and CS instead of just waiting for them to find ya. (Unless you're on an an island surrounded by ocean)

 

[Matthew.]

And at that point, the scout would take a turn or two to train and has less impact on the start

Or horseman/knight scout

 

[The Pilgrim]

There is not such thing as too much exploring, IMO. Also scouts are great for completing CS quests like finding NW and barbs. Later with extra vision promotion they are incredibly useful at war. And even without it they are the cheapest meatshields ever. Fantastic unit.

 

[Voodoo111]

Excellent input everyone, Thanks!!!

 

[Wargizmo]

I often rush buy the second scout, rather than build 2 scouts; often I'll even skip the first scout and rush buy it instead since they're so cheap to buy and you'll likely not have to wait long. I guess I prefer the guaranteed benefit of the early monument or worker versus the randomness of ruins. But of course everything is map dependent, I almost always try to get 2 scouts eventually unless it's a water map.

 

[Czer]

Personally I will now build one right away on almost all starts unless the map type doesn't justify it. I rarely randomize my map types so I usually know what I'm playing. I only build a second/third scout on Domination/Diplomacy games, otherwise I find other buildings are better uses for my hammers.

I had my mind changed about scouts a few months ago on these forums, I used to never build one but I always overlooked their usefulness beyond revealing tiles and finding ruins (don't get me wrong these are the two main uses of the scout). I usually find a couple extra ruins/city state firsts per game now which improves my strength in the early game substantially. Plus scout upgrades to archers are amazing (have a terrain ignoring, blitz gatling gun on my current Persian Domination game, throw a GA in the mix and I have a terrain ignoring, 3 movement two attack death machine bwahaha)

They are also quite useful in war, move in to add a flanking bonus, attack with a ground unit, then get back out of the line of fire. Also good for later in the game to just use as a cheap garrison

 

[Hustapha Thool]

Sometimes, but unusually 1 scout start a worker until Pottery shrine. I almost always get the pantheon I want.

 

[iconocast]

i think the standard, most stable build order is

scout -> scout -> shrine -> monument

its realy just a solid start. the 2 scouts will net some nice goodies and happyness from wonders