Dr kossin #14

[TheMeInTeam]

Two of your pics are backwards I think. And it looks like a TMIT game more than a kossin game

I don't know what you're talking about. I'd go for sistine chapel with this start .

Be careful when you extort techs for peace, they all count toward the WFYABTA limit and since this is a pangaea where every potential trade partner is affected..

To be fair this doesn't seem to be a very nice crowd for tech trades, and gandhi's trade cap is IIRC in the 2nd tier behind mansa. Asp hats like toku/etc are just as likely to hate and not trade for THAT reason, or techs can be used to bribe them into wars or out of them (more likely than them getting a lot of useful tech).

Engineering a backstab is fun but rushing toku is not fun (right up there with gilgamesh and sitting bull).

 

[kossin]

Any good reason not being hindu?

None whatsoever! Toku will hate me anyway and I can befriend everyone else this way.

Be careful when you extort techs for peace, they all count toward the WFYABTA limit and since this is a pangaea where every potential trade partner is affected..

Good point, especially with this crowd.

You have TGL but not sailing? Does it make a difference (assuming you have roads to other trade networks)?

No difference... it's the same as capturing plantations but not having Calendar -> you get bonus on the tile and the resource bonus. It'll be pretty powerful when I finish taking Gandhi's last 3 cities.

I don't know what you're talking about. I'd go for sistine chapel with this start .

To be fair this doesn't seem to be a very nice crowd for tech trades, and gandhi's trade cap is IIRC in the 2nd tier behind mansa. Asp hats like toku/etc are just as likely to hate and not trade for THAT reason, or techs can be used to bribe them into wars or out of them (more likely than them getting a lot of useful tech).

Engineering a backstab is fun but rushing toku is not fun (right up there with gilgamesh and sitting bull).

Odds are there'll be quite a few wars in this game... little trades.

Hopefully I can start bribing people to war against Toku with the religion switch Soirana pointed out. Best case scenario, Toku DoWs Gandhi I suppose.

 

[kossin]

Round 2

Per Soirana's post, I started the round with converting to Hinduism to ease Diplomacy. I also took a Cease Fire with Gandhi. While I wouldn't be able to get techs, the ones he did have weren't great anyway and would count towards the tech trade limit which is kinda low given the neighbors.

Spoiler :

It may have seemed like I was in trouble economically at the end of last round. However, a few tile juggling, a few cities coming out of revolt and building research in the main cities (delaying Horse Archers - but reduced maintenance as well) allowed me to tech to 1 of the saviors:

Spoiler :

That immediately put me in the green at 0% research, and with the ability to build wealth. Next round, Toku declares war.

Spoiler :

On Sury He would manage to capture the Pyramids and is still at war by the end of the segment.

That did not prevent me to make tech trades.

Spoiler :

Alphabet was known to everyone but him and GK. The spare gold was useful for the next tech...

And, being Organized, the obvious next tech in line is Code of Laws.

Spoiler :

Which nabs us the religion too!

Once someone built the Hanging Gardens, I could finally trade for Mathematics and get better chops in.

Spoiler :

Again, HBR was starting to be known so there was no point on holding on to it.

I also managed a few more trades to raise the happy cap.

Spoiler :

Play-time's over Gandhi, hand back your cities now.

Spoiler :

I lost quite a few units taking this city but in the end, I was paying a lot of maintenance for them anyway.

This time, I accept techs from Gandhi since his remaining cities are offshore.

Spoiler :

It was timed perfectly for a massive civic switch too:

Spoiler :

I stopped here, in what looks like a comfortable position.
Techs

Spoiler :

Diplomacy

Spoiler :

I could possibly go for a massive romp with Elephants and take on Tokugawa. The problem is I have 0-intel on him and I may not get any even at Paper by trading maps with Qin (he has OB with Toku). I could always use spies though to get some reckon.

The other option is to wait until Cavalry and strike again... being Philosophical and with access to Stone, Oxford University should be up in no time. There's also a Great Scientist due in about 9 turns (counting the Anarchy period).

 

[obsolete]

Start to Finish

Spoiler :

Boy, what a bizzare map. I actually did this one twice, first try was harder than any deity map, and then my second time it was easier than any emperor map. Very interesting.

The first time, despite I tried to beeline spots, stupid Ghandi instantly beelined right up next to me and I was just barely able to beat him to my southern spot near my capital. But then that cost me a great stone spot to him. And in the West, stupid KK immediately beelined toward me like a mofu as well. I was so crammed in so early, but still tried to get whatever piece of land I could. It was very hard. And then, before 1000 BC even was around the corner, Toku shows up with a big stack of highly promoted axes and DoWs on me. The bastard even had to waltz past much of KK's terrain to do so, but he gets along fine with his worst enemies? I never even did anything to piss him off. What happened to all this LAND-TARGET non-sense? That's exactly what it is, BULLSH!t.

WTH? If I had tried to get any sort of force ready to protect from that, I wouldn't really have any land at all to defend in the first place! Damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

I decided to quit in disgust instead of bothering to play out what seemed to be literally impossible. Later on I decided to give it another shot, since I know fair well that something as simple as moving the direction of your initial scout changes EVERYTHING in the later game.

Sure enough, what a WORLD of difference. I settled in the same spot as the OP, to get levee bonus but it was sort of pointless as I ended up going the WE/SSE route anyway. I also decided I would allow myself to play the nasty early DoW trick myself, since the AI is allowed to do so on me, it doesn't seem like cheating anymore. So... I decided to get ready for early worker steal.

Oddly enough, no workers present themselves, but even more so, Ghandi didn't beeline toward me at all. Nor did KK like the previous game. And even after 1000 BC had come and gone, no nasty sneak attack by Toku. Hmmmm!

And I had built wonder after wonder after wonder as well. Everything from the Henge to Collosus and beyond (and I almost never go after collosus!). Very bizzare indeed.

To make a long story short, I made quite a few dumb mistakes here and there, but this map was so incredibly easy it didn't really matter much. Though I should have won around 1200 A.D. if I hadn't been so greedy (and stupid).

Just ammazing how much a map can change from super-tuff to super-easy depending on what SHOULD be inconsequential decisions.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

What happened to all this LAND-TARGET non-sense? That's exactly what it is, BULLSH!t.

The guy he marched past was probably @ pleased. His worst enemy probably didn't fail the "maxdistancepowerratio" check, which for some AIs is pretty low (shaka's is 50 for example, which is why I got hit in that other thread). His other target probably had enough power at distance that you were rolled as the war target instead.

Of course what really screws the player is the "bunch of warmonger circle jerk" that virtually guarantees they attack the human first (and in force, letting the rest of the world do whatever). It's hard to get out of that unless you're down a level.

 

[bestsss]

obsolete, it's the same as deity team game (where Monty/Ragnar declared on us since we only had low power),... Except Toku is one of the worst, he won't declare above his 30% power w/o border contact (or isolated). That generally makes only humans viable targets for his long range marches.

 

[kossin]

Round 3

I checked F4 screen every turn to sell obsolete techs to backward nations.
Here are a few examples. It may not seem like much, but it allows you to stay competitive and keep the slider at 100% for most of the time. I kept it at 100% almost all the round, with maybe 10 turns at 100% gold.

Spoiler :

As it seemed, I got that Great Scientist in Berlin which bulbed a good part of Education.

Spoiler :

Being Philosophical, Universities were up really fast. Moreover, since I had Stone, I turned off research until Oxford University was complete in Berlin.

Spoiler :

A few more trades.

Spoiler :

Now, Oxford is complete.

Spoiler :

You can see there is 1 cottage only in Berlin, yet I am putting up some great numbers!

I spawned a Great Prophet from Delhi which was used for a Golden Age to help me tech along...

Spoiler :

I built a few wonders as I had some spare hammers...

Spoiler :

This one I forgot to take off the queue actually!

At least I got failure gold from it since I'd been building it elsewhere as well.

While this one added to science throughout the empire.

A couple more trades... Pangea is generally easier once you have your empire settled up.

Spoiler :

Now, the war between Sury and Toku has been going on all this time. Tokugawa is winning badly and taking more and more Sury cities. He comes along and asks that I get involved...

Spoiler :

No thanks!


I could easily have bribed Toku to Peace but then he'd look for a new target which could likely be me.

I was first to Economics and sent the free Great Merchant to the Temple of Artemis city...

Spoiler :

Bibracte

Now, Qin was kind enough to provide me with this trade:

Spoiler :

Which allowed for this nice Liberalism pay-off:

Spoiler :

Rifling! Die! Die! Die!

I stopped here to consider my position. Honestly, the game is just about won by now.

Techs

Spoiler :

Diplomacy

Spoiler :

Plan is to kill everybody for Domination/Diplomation. Conquest would require boats to Vassal Gandhi which I may yet do. 2 problems though:

While everyone is backwards, Boudica is probably going for Military Science to get her hands on Grenadiers. Not too bad though, I'll probably have Airships and a lot of cavalry by the time I decide to attack her. Unless I decide to go with Canons/Draft rifles... it's longer but you loose less units.

The other problem is Tokugawa. Boudie built the AP and forced Peace with Suryavarman... meaning he's out of a punching bag. I will try to gift him a few techs to get him to Pleased and then I could bribe him to attack someone else...

 

[kossin]

Round 4

I finished the game as there was an easy way to do it mid-way the war...

This brought Toku to Pleased...

Spoiler :

To get Cavs faster...

Spoiler :

Bulbed a few GP this round. Settling would have been strong as well though.

Spoiler :

Another trade...

Spoiler :

Despite being Pleased and at forced war with Gandhi, Toku doesn't like me one bit.

Spoiler :

Bulb!

Spoiler :

Problem for Toku is I've been targeting him myself!

Spoiler :

Bulb...

Spoiler :

Take a few cities...

Spoiler :

Gift one to Boudie for diplo and to avoid Toku taking it back... she would gift it back to him a while later though.

Spoiler :

The AP would stop the war... I already had some unhappiness and was running 40% culture so I counted the amount of pop of all civs.. Toku would be #2 in pop if I gave him back his cities... I did so and thus war was for nothing after all.

Golden Age for a civic switch (Mainly for SP)

Spoiler :

Then with a lucky GE, I build this wonder...

Spoiler :

And get the easy micro-less victory. I had DPs with Boudica and QSH and more power than Tokugawa so he would likely not attack me again.

Spoiler :

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Post game

The double rush and Toku's decision not to attack me made it an easy game. I could have won Domination/Conquest but with Boudica going down the Rifling road, I just didn't want the hassle...

The end score? Not bad considering this is more of a Diplo win than a Diplomation one

Spoiler :

Look for Dr kossin #15 tomorrow!

EDIT: Nice game Obsolete. The boxing possibility was actually pretty fast in my game too which lead me to the double-rush.

 

[gspchamp999]

Is that one cottage built in your capital? Also, when do you turn mines to windmills.

 

[kossin]

Is that one cottage built in your capital? Also, when do you turn mines to windmills.

Just one yes.... I didn't have the heart to farm over it

This game, I actually self-researched Machinery as no one would trade it and then started converting mines to windmills right away as I had a high happy cap and not that much food. It allowed me to grow Berlin to a big size much earlier. I turned most of them to windmills by RP in Production cities... only windmills prior to that where you need to grow.

 

[obsolete]

The end score? Not bad considering this is more of a Diplo win than a Diplomation one

You know, this game gave me top score, even higher than my great deity wins. I suspect it's because instead of just vassaling everyone, I instead got greedy and insisted on capturing everything myself. It extended the game much longer but I learned something here...

If you ever want to play a game for POINTS like the HoF:

Always Capture,
Never Vassal

 

[bestsss]

^ If you dont found sushi, the game stinks anyways.