shyuhe
Deity
You might want to figure out a place for a decent 6th city. Your current cities are all good sites so you should be fine so long as Boudi doesn't come after you early.
Dr kossin #21 (Deity)
- Thread starter kossin
- Start date
Yes, so it seems. I thought Boudi and Lincoln being 20ish tiles away meant I had some time but it seems they were on the short end of peninsulas.
This looks like the best research path indeed. Archery was a safety gamble for certain and it probably wasn't a good one, even though copper isn't easy to get on this map.
Funny thing is the religion you want never seems to spread. WvO doesn't care too much about religion so running a different one than him isn't so bad. Aesthetics will be my trading chip for certain so he'll get his shot at it.
Willem doesn't border her so unless she goes to annoyed at him, I think I'm a likelier target.
As pointed out, it is food limited early on but it certainly is better than nothing and what I have left for a 6th city.
It'll work mostly coast tiles and the copper for starters. With Montezuma, you want to whip a lot so a big size isn't that important.
Yes... those forests are definitely not staying there until RP to get silly Lumbermills.
Having a 6th city will be very important, I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately in my current position and available spots, it's not so important right now and can wait some turns.
~~~
I got pretty sick yesterday so I couldn't post the next round. I'll do that now and also try to get the third in.
Round 2
First off, I cancelled one of the settler builds. I didn't need him right away (no spot that I knew of) and he'd cost maintenance.
I assigned some workers to get a network going with Boudica.
This is the barren north... I see no option for a 6th city here.
You can now see where Boudi settled.
Lincoln is an Economic leader. This is the second time I encounter him in a game (twice in a row actually) and he seems to like building shinies. Anyway, he's first to Alphabet.
As I mentioned in my last post in the thread, Hinduism did not want to spread to me. However, it was not all bad...
In 775BC, hands get busy.
This gets me distracted a bit. I build some troops for possible defense and neglect sending them past Willem, where there are some very nice barb cities... clearly a bad choice. More on that later.
I finish Aesthetics the next turn and put the overflow research into Alphabet for 1 turn. This allows me to start trading.
I take the most expensive tech from Lincoln first. If it's not too unbalanced (doesn't favor the AI), you don't get the worst enemy penalty.
I also take Iron Working from Willem. I don't need to clear jungle and Jaguars are resourceless but should I be devoid of Iron, I need to settle a source sooner than later for later on.
I'm lucky and have Iron in my culture.
A couple of turns later, Boudica makes one of the easiest requests I can remember:
At this point it's pretty clear I'm safe from her... I should have taken some units and go barb hunting. Shoot me but I didn't think of it
I finally get my first Great Person who makes an Academy in my capital.
5 turns later, my suspicions are confirmed.
Tech situation - Currency is almost in.
I don't need this deal, but Diplo wise, it should help befriending Boudica.
Diplo is in the hornet's nest right now. I'm not the target so I can breathe for the moment.
The land beyond Willem... why didn't I head over there
Still no Hinduism has spread to me... bummer.
First off, I cancelled one of the settler builds. I didn't need him right away (no spot that I knew of) and he'd cost maintenance.
I assigned some workers to get a network going with Boudica.
Spoiler :
This is the barren north... I see no option for a 6th city here.
Spoiler :
You can now see where Boudi settled.
Spoiler :
Lincoln is an Economic leader. This is the second time I encounter him in a game (twice in a row actually) and he seems to like building shinies. Anyway, he's first to Alphabet.
Spoiler :
As I mentioned in my last post in the thread, Hinduism did not want to spread to me. However, it was not all bad...
Spoiler :
In 775BC, hands get busy.
Spoiler :
This gets me distracted a bit. I build some troops for possible defense and neglect sending them past Willem, where there are some very nice barb cities... clearly a bad choice. More on that later.
I finish Aesthetics the next turn and put the overflow research into Alphabet for 1 turn. This allows me to start trading.
I take the most expensive tech from Lincoln first. If it's not too unbalanced (doesn't favor the AI), you don't get the worst enemy penalty.
Spoiler :
I also take Iron Working from Willem. I don't need to clear jungle and Jaguars are resourceless but should I be devoid of Iron, I need to settle a source sooner than later for later on.
Spoiler :
I'm lucky and have Iron in my culture.
A couple of turns later, Boudica makes one of the easiest requests I can remember:
Spoiler :
At this point it's pretty clear I'm safe from her... I should have taken some units and go barb hunting. Shoot me but I didn't think of it
I finally get my first Great Person who makes an Academy in my capital.
Spoiler :
5 turns later, my suspicions are confirmed.
Spoiler :
Tech situation - Currency is almost in.
Spoiler :
I don't need this deal, but Diplo wise, it should help befriending Boudica.
Spoiler :
Diplo is in the hornet's nest right now. I'm not the target so I can breathe for the moment.
Spoiler :
The land beyond Willem... why didn't I head over there
Spoiler :
Still no Hinduism has spread to me... bummer.
shyuhe
Deity
Better do something about that land east of Willem or he's going to grow really big (and become a pain to dislodge later). He can become problematic since he'll also declare at pleased, although he's no troop spammer.
Yes that would have been the best thing to do. Looking back, I can't believe how I missed it. I guess I lost focus and stared at the small picture rather than the large picture. I'm working on round 3 which will be longer, as a matter of fact, up to Liberalism. It'll still be behind the point I'm at in the game right now but it'll be much closer. That's what happens when you get in one-more-turn mode 
That is clearly my biggest mistake in the game up to this point. The other big one, in my opinion, was delaying BW which cost me a few close-by cities (at least 1).
Play and learn I guess.
That is clearly my biggest mistake in the game up to this point. The other big one, in my opinion, was delaying BW which cost me a few close-by cities (at least 1).
Play and learn I guess.
Round 3
This update will bring us to daily parity (one a day). It'll be longer and skip over a lot of time since I didn't do much (while I should have been busy doing something).
Upon completing Currency, I am first there and decide to keep it as a monopoly for some turns. Boudica has a lot of spare gold however so I trade her Aesthetics for some of it.
Nobody wants to trade Mathematics right now so I head to Code of Laws hoping it'll become available in the meantime. And what do you know... I'm actually first there!
Sacrificial Altars are queued up everywhere and there is much happiness, kind of
.
Mathematics still isn't available... Meditation->Priesthood->trade for Monarchy
And then Mathematics STILL isn't available... so I research it myself and start on Civil Service.
Boudica and Lincoln make peace in 150BC... both lost a ton of units but nothing else changed really. Hinduism doesn't spread either so I stay in Paganism+NSR.
Lincoln founds Taoism in 100BC. Not to be outdone, Willem gets Islam at 75BC. On the home front, Boudica becomes Pleased with me around this time.
I finish Civil Service in 25AD and of course immediately revolt to Bureaucracy and Caste System to farm a Great Scientist.
I cash out on S. Paya in 125AD.
The tech situation at this time is somewhat encouraging. Of course, if the AI actually focused their research and traded adequately, I'd be in the dust far behind.
I plant my 6th city on the very next turn. It's a bad spot but by now it's way too late to do anything about Willem's back land and the pig tile can be swapped in between the 3 cities. I send some workers to chop the granary and it grows pretty fast.
The Great Scientist is just in time to bulb almost all that's left of Education.
I start on Liberalism next and start backfilling with techs that are already out.
First, with Philosophy.
I wait as long as I can (until someone has it) and do the same with Civil Service.
In 560AD Willem completes the Apolisitc Palace (Judaism) which means temples/monasteries everywhere. Moreover, Boudica goes into war-mode. Since I am Pleased with her (never left it), I take this opportunity to crank out another Great Scientist:
I revolt back out upon getting the next GS.
Paper gets traded next.
By this point I put my money on science to get a tech lead. This is definitely not the safest route on this map but it might just work...
Therefore, Universities become a priority and are whipped in the lagging cities ASAP, which allows me to start Oxford University in 800AD, due in 8 turns.
After Universities are done, the next priority is to start getting units from somewhere... Theatres are queued up and cities allowed to grow as much as possible.
The research path after Education is Philosophy->(trades above)->Printing Press->Gunpowder->Nationalism(trade)->Chemistry (1 bulb).
I actually started Chemistry but when I saw Boudi willing to trade Nationalism, I spent some research on it.
All this time, I have a monopoly on Education and seeing as almost all religions were founded on this landmass, odds are the other AIs out there aren't pursuing Liberalism actively. Therefore I finish Chemistry manually and then I queue Liberalism which has just 1 turn left to finish...
I leave you with the save 1 turn from Liberalism.
Techs
Diplomacy - wouldn't want to be Lincoln
Willem is pretty huge now... 15 cities. It's mostly my fault for doing nothing about it though.
So, is it gonna work?
(Here's the answer anyway)
Next segment is coming tomorrow and should bring the game up to where I'm currently at (unless I play some more).
This update will bring us to daily parity (one a day). It'll be longer and skip over a lot of time since I didn't do much (while I should have been busy doing something).
Upon completing Currency, I am first there and decide to keep it as a monopoly for some turns. Boudica has a lot of spare gold however so I trade her Aesthetics for some of it.
Spoiler :
Nobody wants to trade Mathematics right now so I head to Code of Laws hoping it'll become available in the meantime. And what do you know... I'm actually first there!
Spoiler :
Sacrificial Altars are queued up everywhere and there is much happiness, kind of
.Mathematics still isn't available... Meditation->Priesthood->trade for Monarchy
Spoiler :
And then Mathematics STILL isn't available... so I research it myself and start on Civil Service.
Boudica and Lincoln make peace in 150BC... both lost a ton of units but nothing else changed really. Hinduism doesn't spread either so I stay in Paganism+NSR.
Lincoln founds Taoism in 100BC. Not to be outdone, Willem gets Islam at 75BC. On the home front, Boudica becomes Pleased with me around this time.
I finish Civil Service in 25AD and of course immediately revolt to Bureaucracy and Caste System to farm a Great Scientist.
Spoiler :
I cash out on S. Paya in 125AD.
Spoiler :
The tech situation at this time is somewhat encouraging. Of course, if the AI actually focused their research and traded adequately, I'd be in the dust far behind.
Spoiler :
I plant my 6th city on the very next turn. It's a bad spot but by now it's way too late to do anything about Willem's back land and the pig tile can be swapped in between the 3 cities. I send some workers to chop the granary and it grows pretty fast.
Spoiler :
The Great Scientist is just in time to bulb almost all that's left of Education.
Spoiler :
I start on Liberalism next and start backfilling with techs that are already out.
First, with Philosophy.
Spoiler :
I wait as long as I can (until someone has it) and do the same with Civil Service.
Spoiler :
In 560AD Willem completes the Apolisitc Palace (Judaism) which means temples/monasteries everywhere. Moreover, Boudica goes into war-mode. Since I am Pleased with her (never left it), I take this opportunity to crank out another Great Scientist:
Spoiler :
I revolt back out upon getting the next GS.
Paper gets traded next.
Spoiler :
By this point I put my money on science to get a tech lead. This is definitely not the safest route on this map but it might just work...
Therefore, Universities become a priority and are whipped in the lagging cities ASAP, which allows me to start Oxford University in 800AD, due in 8 turns.
Spoiler :
After Universities are done, the next priority is to start getting units from somewhere... Theatres are queued up and cities allowed to grow as much as possible.
The research path after Education is Philosophy->(trades above)->Printing Press->Gunpowder->Nationalism(trade)->Chemistry (1 bulb).
Spoiler :
I actually started Chemistry but when I saw Boudi willing to trade Nationalism, I spent some research on it.
Spoiler :
All this time, I have a monopoly on Education and seeing as almost all religions were founded on this landmass, odds are the other AIs out there aren't pursuing Liberalism actively. Therefore I finish Chemistry manually and then I queue Liberalism which has just 1 turn left to finish...
I leave you with the save 1 turn from Liberalism.
Techs
Spoiler :
Diplomacy - wouldn't want to be Lincoln
Spoiler :
Willem is pretty huge now... 15 cities. It's mostly my fault for doing nothing about it though.
So, is it gonna work?
(Here's the answer anyway)
Spoiler :
Next segment is coming tomorrow and should bring the game up to where I'm currently at (unless I play some more).
Muskets and cannons to blow away WvO? Join Boudica for extra diplo against Lincoln and take all of Lincoln's land?
Sounds like the other continent has the Mongols/Zulus etc. on them that's doing some heavy warring. If the other continent was peaceful and shared religions I think you'd be in trouble. :V
Sounds like the other continent has the Mongols/Zulus etc. on them that's doing some heavy warring. If the other continent was peaceful and shared religions I think you'd be in trouble. :V
ABigCivFan
Emperor
I would have grabbed that 2x Fur+Silver+copper spot. Those resources are great trade chips. It can work the silver to pay for itself for a while too.
I would suggest to take on WvO first before he gets too big.
I would suggest to take on WvO first before he gets too big.
Yes, Willem is the intended target. Lincoln is keeping Boudica busy and his land isn't that great although he has some nice wonders set up. OTOH, Willem's land is fantastic and he has a lot of wonder, a LOT.
I considered the resource city but without food it would have been a pain getting anything out of it =\
The war with Willem is under way in the next segment and things are going pretty well so far. More on that tomorrow...
I considered the resource city but without food it would have been a pain getting anything out of it =\
The war with Willem is under way in the next segment and things are going pretty well so far. More on that tomorrow...
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,989
Lincoln, Boudica, and Willem each got different religions in my game. They each had a different civ than me as a worst enemy
And I got dogpiled...AFTER being targeted first by willem rather than 2nd, he vassals lincoln, declares on me (@ pleased of course), and drags boudica, who hates lincoln more, in on his side. Game over since I couldn't even keep up with willem. 12 or so elephants, about 8 trebs, and an assortment of maces/xbows/whatever in the mid 100's AD, all while pushing really far ahead of me in tech (though I did manage to win lib and get 6 cities before I died).
And I got dogpiled...AFTER being targeted first by willem rather than 2nd, he vassals lincoln, declares on me (@ pleased of course), and drags boudica, who hates lincoln more, in on his side. Game over since I couldn't even keep up with willem. 12 or so elephants, about 8 trebs, and an assortment of maces/xbows/whatever in the mid 100's AD, all while pushing really far ahead of me in tech (though I did manage to win lib and get 6 cities before I died).
Artichoker
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2007
- Messages
- 1,711
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,989
Yeah well I think I used up all of my luck credits for a while in dingding's deity game 
.
.ABigCivFan
Emperor
About the resource grabber, 1 copper + 2 fur + silver can get you up to 5 happy/health resources from the AIs or up to 80 gpt (copper counts as 2 res). even if you just leave this city at size 1 and working silver, it pays for itself.
you can actually farm the river tundra to make it grow slowly too.
you can actually farm the river tundra to make it grow slowly too.
obsolete
Deity
Good luck with your trials at deity. I have not played any of the recent games for a while. I just feel too bored with this game at this point, and I feel too let-down by Firaxis.
Soon I"m going to retire from here for good, but I'll still peek in around once in a while for a bit.
Soon I"m going to retire from here for good, but I'll still peek in around once in a while for a bit.
Ugh... bad luck =\
Hmm that makes sense. I still like my 6th city for getting the Theatre and University though, so it would have made a good 7th city.
Thanks. Shame to see a top-tier player hang it up... was hoping to see your Ramesses of Deity game complete in the Story subforum... Have you tried some of the mods that tried improving on the AI coding?
Round 4
As I said yesterday, the logical war target here is Willem - can't let him grow out of proportion any more than he already is.
Starting from last round, I finished Liberalism and got Steel as a freebie.
I turn off research awaiting for Oxford now that I can afford it. Back at 100% research when it completes.
The next tech of choice is Rifling. I have to backfill Feudalism->Guilds->Banking then start on RP->Rifling.
1020AD Failure gold on Sankore to help me reach Rifling. Pretty much all cities are on *Canon at this point. I do build some Muskets/Pikes (Willem has Cuirassiers.)
1140AD Rifling is in -> Draft/mass whip. Gotta love being Aztec.
I was met by the other AIs throughout the round: Ragnar, Sitting Bull and Darius. Darius is normally a threat for Liberalism but it looks like Ragnar went Medieval on his research. SB was on an island by himself.
1160AD Trade Liberalism to Boudi for Economics
1180AD Boudi DoWs Lincoln
In 1210 AD, I deem my forces sufficient (been scouting Willem with my STARTING scout...). He doesn't have a SoD and is pretty stretched thin on military since he pretty much just finished expanding.
My Draft City which produced about half of my Riflemen. I settled a GG here later on to get a second promo on rifles (love Aggressive draftees). It has a lot more accumulated anger by now. I had to step out of Nationalism for 5 turns to let it grow back at one point.
1230AD I reach Rotterdam which is garrisoned "weakly".
The end result is pretty obvious though with the tech advantage I have...
At this point, I keep the main stack together and send some minor reinforcements to it. All the new units form a secondary (and at one point a small third) stack to make the war faster.
I won't post screenshots of every siege. They all pretty much look like Rotterdam to be honest.
1280AD I capture Leiden and The Hague
1340AD Amsterdam is captured. It's quite a prize.
1350AD -Trade Astronomy with SB - intercontinental trade routes were big here and helped a lot - and bribe him into Free Market.
1370AD - Utrecht: Jewish shrine is nice.
1380AD A look at the Boudi-Lincoln war. I consider bribing Boudica out but it'll cost an arm and she'll go back at him before I can finish Willem.
I capture Maastricht and Nimjegen this turn.
1390AD Ragnar comes begging and I agree... I don't want an overseas fight... just yet.
1410AD We're not doing too bad on power against these Deity AIs!... Rifling sure is helping out though.
Haarlem, Delft and Dorestad are captured this turn (3rd stack used).
1430AD I raze Groningen - it doesn't have a food resource, doesn't work unused tiles - basically useless.
In 1450AD, I join a bogus war against Lincoln for some diplo points. I capture Alemanni on the same turn.
1460AD Zhou (the great barb city) is captured. Also Lincoln capitulates to Boudica.
1480AD 's-Hertogenbosch falls
1490AD Middelburg falls
1505 Deventer falls
1515AD Well, that should keep them busy... SB DoWs Ragnar!
By 1520AD, Willem has 0 cities left (Kamper is captured this turn) on the mainland and is willing to Capitulate. This isn't a very good option Diplo-wise but it could gain me quite a few techs. He isn't willing to part with Assembly Line to save his behind unfortunately. Maybe a few more turns of research will change his mind.
Total cost of the war: 11 canons, 3 riflemen.
My new land:
Techs - I'm not too backwards despite the long war.
Diplomacy
Current troops
So what made this war successful? Willem's stupidity to research all the way to Assembly Line without even bothering to research Rifling gets my vote. Even then, I would have lost more units but I was outproducing him with my 6 cities and I could have whipped a lot more than I did!
Boudica went in war mode recently (after I gifted her 1000 gold to get her to Pleased).
I can backstab her and gain control of my continent or I can start thinking of another Victory Condition than the militaristic approach ones.
This updates is up to where I've played the game. I'll have to get busy playing again tomorrow before posting updates so rounds might (or not) be shorter somewhat. Late eras with 20+ cities takes so long...
As I said yesterday, the logical war target here is Willem - can't let him grow out of proportion any more than he already is.
Starting from last round, I finished Liberalism and got Steel as a freebie.
Spoiler :
I turn off research awaiting for Oxford now that I can afford it. Back at 100% research when it completes.
The next tech of choice is Rifling. I have to backfill Feudalism->Guilds->Banking then start on RP->Rifling.
Spoiler :
1020AD Failure gold on Sankore to help me reach Rifling. Pretty much all cities are on *Canon at this point. I do build some Muskets/Pikes (Willem has Cuirassiers.)
Spoiler :
1140AD Rifling is in -> Draft/mass whip. Gotta love being Aztec.
I was met by the other AIs throughout the round: Ragnar, Sitting Bull and Darius. Darius is normally a threat for Liberalism but it looks like Ragnar went Medieval on his research. SB was on an island by himself.
1160AD Trade Liberalism to Boudi for Economics
Spoiler :
1180AD Boudi DoWs Lincoln
In 1210 AD, I deem my forces sufficient (been scouting Willem with my STARTING scout...). He doesn't have a SoD and is pretty stretched thin on military since he pretty much just finished expanding.
Spoiler :
My Draft City which produced about half of my Riflemen. I settled a GG here later on to get a second promo on rifles (love Aggressive draftees). It has a lot more accumulated anger by now. I had to step out of Nationalism for 5 turns to let it grow back at one point.
Spoiler :
1230AD I reach Rotterdam which is garrisoned "weakly".
Spoiler :
The end result is pretty obvious though with the tech advantage I have...
Spoiler :
At this point, I keep the main stack together and send some minor reinforcements to it. All the new units form a secondary (and at one point a small third) stack to make the war faster.
I won't post screenshots of every siege. They all pretty much look like Rotterdam to be honest.
1280AD I capture Leiden and The Hague
1340AD Amsterdam is captured. It's quite a prize.
Spoiler :
1350AD -Trade Astronomy with SB - intercontinental trade routes were big here and helped a lot - and bribe him into Free Market.
Spoiler :
1370AD - Utrecht: Jewish shrine is nice.
Spoiler :
1380AD A look at the Boudi-Lincoln war. I consider bribing Boudica out but it'll cost an arm and she'll go back at him before I can finish Willem.
Spoiler :
I capture Maastricht and Nimjegen this turn.
1390AD Ragnar comes begging and I agree... I don't want an overseas fight... just yet.
Spoiler :
1410AD We're not doing too bad on power against these Deity AIs!... Rifling sure is helping out though.
Spoiler :
Haarlem, Delft and Dorestad are captured this turn (3rd stack used).
1430AD I raze Groningen - it doesn't have a food resource, doesn't work unused tiles - basically useless.
In 1450AD, I join a bogus war against Lincoln for some diplo points. I capture Alemanni on the same turn.
Spoiler :
1460AD Zhou (the great barb city) is captured. Also Lincoln capitulates to Boudica.
1480AD 's-Hertogenbosch falls
1490AD Middelburg falls
1505 Deventer falls
1515AD Well, that should keep them busy... SB DoWs Ragnar!
Spoiler :
By 1520AD, Willem has 0 cities left (Kamper is captured this turn) on the mainland and is willing to Capitulate. This isn't a very good option Diplo-wise but it could gain me quite a few techs. He isn't willing to part with Assembly Line to save his behind unfortunately. Maybe a few more turns of research will change his mind.
Spoiler :
Total cost of the war: 11 canons, 3 riflemen.
My new land:
Spoiler :
Techs - I'm not too backwards despite the long war.
Spoiler :
Diplomacy
Spoiler :
Current troops
Spoiler :
So what made this war successful? Willem's stupidity to research all the way to Assembly Line without even bothering to research Rifling gets my vote. Even then, I would have lost more units but I was outproducing him with my 6 cities and I could have whipped a lot more than I did!
Boudica went in war mode recently (after I gifted her 1000 gold to get her to Pleased).
I can backstab her and gain control of my continent or I can start thinking of another Victory Condition than the militaristic approach ones.
This updates is up to where I've played the game. I'll have to get busy playing again tomorrow before posting updates so rounds might (or not) be shorter somewhat. Late eras with 20+ cities takes so long...
dirtyparrot
Upholding Brannigan's Law
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2005
- Messages
- 1,841
Nicely played. Unless the 10 turns of forced peace are in place, I suspect that Boudica is preparing to finish off honest Abe. Willem really gave you some excellent land.
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