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Dr kossin #25

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by kossin, Feb 23, 2010.

  1. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Welcome to Dr kossin #25.

    Dr is an acronym for Daily Round. Yes, I mean to get in an update every day to the games I will be playing. Of course there might be some days where I can only play a little or not at all, but I will make up for it those other days when I do have extra time on my hands.

    Since the 21st edition of this series, the difficulty level has been cranked all the way up to Deity. I'm not at the point where I can win every game thrown at me on Deity level... I probably can't even win every game thrown at me on Immortal but it is getting a bit boring. My goal is now to achieve competitive skills on this level which should hopefully help me improve more.

    You, the reader, can help me achieve this goal by pointing out where I got astray, give suggestions on how to proceed, use complex abstract mathematical analysis to argue, curse at me or anything that you may like. Please note that you must respect the Terms of Service of CFC in any case :)

    You may shadow this game and post it here if you please, but I kindly request that you put it in spoiler tags and that anyone reading the report abstain from using information found there to help me out.

    Should you want more clarification about something I've done, just ask for it and I will try to answer as best as I can.

    Enough talk, on to the game.

    Dr kossin #25​


    Round 1 What a wonderful world...
    Round 2 Walking on thin crust
    Round 3 Post-Liberalism war preparations
    Round 4 They've got magic but it's still only a trick

    Game settings
    Deity
    Normal Speed
    Fractal
    No Events
    No Huts
    BTS 3.19 with BUG 4.3 in CustomAssets and BULL 1.1
    Everything else is normal.

    A special thanks to lymond who provided the map.

    The leader, this time, is:


    Please refer to the Ethiopia Civ IV wiki for more information on this leader/nation.

    The start:


    I also happen to like Zara a lot. Creative is my favorite trait and I find it's even more powerful on Deity than on other levels. Skipping Mysticism early on allows you to focus on something else to help the empire. It's not as strong later on in the game, but most games are decided in the first 100 turns anyway.
    Organized is another very strong trait to help cut on expenses and it actually makes building Courthouses viable for their cost. The Oromo Warrior is a pretty good UU and tags along nicely with canons. The UB might be a bit over the top but it can give a hand on culture battles in Civ 4's hardest difficulty level.

    The start isn't fantastic with only 2 plains hills and a lot of brown tiles in the BFC. There's probably a resource 2S1W of the settler and I'm hoping it's food.

    For settling options, in place is a possibility. It gets 6 plains tiles which isn't great.

    1SE is a gamble which will free up an extra hill but might be trading grass tiles for more brown ones. If there's something 2S2E of the settler however, it might pick it up.

    Finally there are options to move away from the assumed resource 2S1W of the settler. 1N looks like it will bring in more green land for example. As a result, I think the scout will go take a look north to see if there's anything interesting up there. It'd mean settling away from the river, losing 1 turn and possibly a resource so it'd need to be pretty good to move there.

    Techs: Agriculture is a given. BW might be required given the amount of forests. However, seeing Marble there, an early Oracle might be an option if the land isn't too threatened. Another option is TW+Pottery right after Agriculture. In any case, delaying Writing isn't a good idea with a Creative leader.
    We'll see after initial scouting.
     
  2. Artichoker

    Artichoker Emperor

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    Trying to use Marble to help speed up the Oracle is tough when you have neither Mysticism nor The Wheel to begin with.

    But chopping Forests is another way to speed it up, even without Marble. In this case, early Bronze Working would be very helpful.
     
  3. Fleme

    Fleme Obey the Kitty!

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    I took a peek at the map and... Subscribing. Awesome performances so far kossin.
     
  4. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Yea, might as well not be any marble when missing these 2 techs, it makes no difference on Deity. The Great Library OTOH...

    I'm kinda surprised I have a winning streak on Deity so far. The map looks... interesting to say the least.

    ~~~
    That being said I played a few turns (400BC) but I might not have time for a report today... we'll see in a few hours.
     
  5. Riot

    Riot Warlord

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    At least any cultural battles is an autowin with ZY, eh?
     
  6. Udey1

    Udey1 Prince

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    If you can count that as a win. I don't. If that's the only thing I have left I treat the game as a loss. The A.I. Doesn't know how to handle it, and its just wimpy.

    Looking forward to Civ V, I hope that they change this (cultural victory) condition quite a bit.
     
  7. Infantry#14

    Infantry#14 Emperor

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    it's a matter of playing style. There is no shame going after cultural.
     
  8. Riot

    Riot Warlord

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    Stelai are pretty good! I meant more so when you're laying down cities. Since they give a 25% modifier boost, it's quite substantial once you start getting some decent culture additions like religions (+1 each, +2 monastery, +1 temple), theatres (+3 base, +2 for an artist each), libraries (+2), etc.

    All of this an easily overwhelm an AI's borders, and while you won't flip a city early on, ZY will get his BFC up in 5 turns (Creative), and more importantly - he's going to keep it, even if another AI settles in your face and tries to take a resource in your second ring.
     
  9. Udey1

    Udey1 Prince

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    Its just my opinion(that it is less than a real win). I hope they change it later.
     
  10. dirtyparrot

    dirtyparrot Upholding Brannigan's Law

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    What's the rule regarding the min number of hills on your starting spot? I thought that the generator had to give you at least 3, but I'm not completely sure. I can't tell if those are 2 forested hills to the south from the screen shot, but if they are, you might be giving up a good bit of production settling on the marble. If you do plan on settling on the marble I would first move the settler to the forest south of it.

    That being said, Zara is probably my favourite leader. I love how he gets discounts on a huge number of buildings.
     
  11. Shurdus

    Shurdus Am I Napoleon?

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    There is this ottoman guy that gets discounts on even more buildings and he is brilliant too, yet Zara takes the cake in the sense that the Oromo warrior is actually a solid and usable musketman. Also as said his creative is a very powerful trait. It was mentioned that the AI can settle in your face, but Zara can settle in the face of the AI and get away with it too.

    Also there is no rule saying you need at least three hills in the BFC, or there are exceptions to it for sure. I posted a start with Zara a while back where I had 3 non-riverside gems in my BFC but only one hill.
     
  12. jacklours

    jacklours Chieftain

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    Hey, subscribing :goodjob:
     
  13. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    On most map types there is indeed a 3-hills generation rule for the capital BFC.
    In this case, 1 is under the settler and there are 2 plains hill to the south.

    Some map types (Tectonics comes to mind) don't respect the 'rules' that are known on the forums.

    ~~~

    The report is coming up but it won't be good, I'm sorry. I didn't play that poorly but I lost my autosaves (been testing a map for the next Emperor Cookbook) and forgot to back them up =\). Meaning there's a big gap that isn't covered by screenshots. I could replay it but odds are it'll be quite different so as I said, I'm sorry and will try to compensate with words.
     
  14. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Round 1

    I moved the scout north but all there was to show was Tundra, so SIP.
    Spoiler :


    We gain a cow in the BFC, making initial research Agriculture->AH


    On turn #2, I get a pleasant sight.
    Spoiler :

    You gotta be kidding, right?


    Followed by a guy that shows up frequently in my games lately.
    Spoiler :


    Another nice guy shows up, making it easier.
    Spoiler :

    Geesh, Ragnar's been in almost every game since I've moved to Deity... I hate him!


    So here starts the great screenshots gap...

    I went for BW next followed by TW->Pottery->Writing->Masonry->Aesthetics->Mysticism->Polytheism->Literature->start on music.

    As you see, I ignored The Oracle completely. Sadly, now would have been a great time to go after it as it went in 975BC! Taking Monarchy or Aesthetics would have saved me a lot of beakers... but dilute my GPP pool with GP points.
    Having marble next door makes me too greedy for that tech path...

    My second city went to claim rice/cows/gold, you can see that area in the Ragnar meeting.

    The next one grabbed rice/marble/cows/copper to the south. I produced 2 more settlers, one on his way to a northern spot and the other one I actually have a screenshot for.

    Anyway, Parthenon is secured in 525BC.
    Spoiler :


    Wk grabs Alphabet before Toku so I can start trading.
    Spoiler :




    The other produced settler made a crappy city on Tokugawa's borders and then was gifted to him for fair trade and city liberation bonuses.
    Spoiler :


    Hopefully that will keep him off my back even though he has no metals (but has horses). Attacking a hilled up protective hidden behind walls Tokugawa with Ragnar sitting close by just didn't seem like a good idea. Anyway, I might try to do the same with Ragnar but he already has a ton of cities so it's not a great idea I think.

    I opened borders with Toku and am getting trade rotues with WK as a result. Moreover, he's willing to talk trades now.
    Spoiler :


    I captured my 4th city relatively late, from barbarians.
    Spoiler :


    With a few chops, TGL is completed in 400BC in Aksum. I've queued the National Epic next and have some more forests to chop into it.
    Spoiler :


    A view of the available land. It isn't pretty if you ask me... Way too much brown tiles.
    Spoiler :


    I can get my 6 cities up and running but some will be quite low on food before Civil Service.

    Techs
    Spoiler :




    Diplomacy - with hidden attitude on (just the known factors: AI to AI attitude, difficulty penalty, leader bias (-1/0/+1).
    Spoiler :


    Tokugawa went into war mode after going Pleased with me. Moreover I've seen him ship units west so I'd be willing to bet he's going after WK. My biggest worry is probably Ragnar. He's pretty big and teching pretty fast... already having Civil Service.

    If Ragnar decides to come after me, I might be in trouble. Otherwise, with GPP secured, I can pull ahead a bit and pound on the AIs with a tech lead, possibly Cuirassiers again.
     
  15. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    That's some ugly land. Cuirassiers on protective LB + pikes is pretty ugly. Since you have GL + Parthenon, maybe a cannon war is better suited here?

    Trading away literature when you're going for music is a pretty big gamble... I hope it doesn't hose you.
     
  16. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Good thinking. Drafted Oromos + Canons might be a much better approach here, good point.

    Literature <-> Mathematics was a gamble indeed. He seemed to be heading in a different direction so we'll see I guess.
     
  17. Riot

    Riot Warlord

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    Ragnar can be pleased via HR, Tokugawa already at pleased via city gifting...

    Think you'll be okay up to, maybe even until Rifling actually. Cavalry ho?

    Land looks pretty horrendous indeed...
     
  18. Shurdus

    Shurdus Am I Napoleon?

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    Good call on the cannons. :)

    When seeying the math for literature trde my thoughts were the exact same. Now let up hope you grab it rather than getting beaten...

    From here on maybe you can get a backstab in? Toku should be willing enough to be bribed to war with some one and then you should be able to take his relatively undefended cities. Unfortunately we cannot see what the rest of the land looks like. I am not a big fan of your scouting I must admit. Otherwise you are doing superb, keep it up and I take it we get to see another nice skilled war. :goodjob:
     
  19. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Pleased Ragnar is far from immunity unfortunately...

    My scouting is horrendous, I agree. In my defense, I only recently opened up borders with Toku so all that western land was unavailable to be seen before. No excuse for south however.

    I kinda hope the Music race doesn't blow in my face... it's my trading chip for the moment. WK is likely to finish researching whatever he currently was and if Toku goes after him as I expect him to, it will give me more time.

    I don't know that Toku's land will be any better than mine, perhaps going straight for Ragnar is a better approach - albeit more difficult.
     
  20. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Well, here goes today's round. Someone called in sick at work and I have to fill in for tonight. Delayed until tomorrow.
     

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