[DRN-001] BtS Any Which Way You Can

[pigswill]

Had a look at the save. W've started internet, 20 turns to complete it. The main thing is to avoid techs that AIs are likely to research themselves. Maybe finish artllery, go to ecology for recycling centres, get apollo built. As njorls noted non-proliferation would make life more straightforward. I reckon that we can get a spaceship at alpha centauri well within 70 turns.

 

[doronron]

Which seems to be the more viable victory? Space Race or Culture? It's sounding like Space Race, at the moment.

I'd love to get another war in, but a fight with Cathy and/or Brennus would probably set us back too much. Even with the early removal of the HRE and vassalizing the Babylonians, this seems to have been a really peaceful game. Not many known wars (only one?) between the AIs, either...

 

[njorls]

It does sound like Space Race.

Whatever we do I think our priorites should be:
1) Victory condition
2) Unhealth problem
3) Building army/navy as deterrence

If we built the Internet, 2 civs would need to research something we haven't researched for us to get the tech. I don't see this happening for a while.

3 Gorges Dam would help with space race, and Washington's the highest hammer riverside city. The Pentagon's nice but we can get to space without it.

 

[doronron]

It would help us defend ourselves, though -- switch out Internet for Pentagon then start in on 3 Gorges in Washington?

 

[azaris]

Turn 0: Turn the lumbermills at Buffalo into forest preserves. The Internet converted to Apollo Program as discussed. Going for another boring space launch.

Turn 2: Artillery -> Ecology. We have a pollution problem. Instigated vote for Nuclear Non-Proliferation as discussed. Sitting Bull is spamming Sushi around. Sushi branch founded in Philadelphia because they starve otherwise. Trade more rice from Cathy to make Sushi even more powerful (and costly). I switch temporarily to Environmentalism until we can get Sushi up in Washington and Los Angeles.

Turn 3: Nukes banned by a 100% majority.

Turn 5: Great Merchant born. Stored for later. Starvation over everywhere and we go back to Free Market. I whipped some cities to a more manageable size, let's try to get those RCs up and running next.

Turn 6: Brennus completes Apollo.

Turn 8: Ecology -> Superconductors. Cathy has too much on her hands. She has a massive -8 against Zara for spying. Sometimes the spy spamming AI digs its own grave. Cristo Redentor + Nationhood makes us safe from any backstabbing.

Turn 11: Start a Golden Age. It's fun when the great people all start doing their own thing at the same time. Babylon has swapped to American majority, so much for the revolts.

Turn 12: Pentagon done.

Turn 14: Superconductors -> Genetics.

Apollo completes next turn, we have 11 more turns of Golden Age. Our navy is 12 destroyers and 4 battleships. Our air force is 7 fighters (city defense) plus 3 bombers. I spammed Civ Jewels to Sitting Bull and right now Babylon alone is paying for all of our inflation. Cathy will probably smack Zara around but we'll go to space while she's doing that.

 

[njorls]

Sounds good AAzaris. Haven't checked the save, but got it, will play and post tonight.

 

[pigswill]

Had a quick look. We're doing ok. Recycling centre look as if they're worth building. More overseas jewellers perhaps.
Is it worth cutting back a bit on research to cash-rush RCs, labs etc?

 

[njorls]

Turn 0: (480 total, 1890 AD) Roosevelt has Refridgeration, which we could use. But he won't trade it. Maybe when Hammurabi finishes it in 13 one of them will trade.
I lower research to 80%, to rush buy recycling centers.

Turn 1: Stalin wants Gunpowder. Nope.
Appollo program finished in Boston, start Recycling Center

Turn 2: 3 Gorges Dam started in Washington.

Turn 3: Set forth a trade routes resolution in UN
St Louis, our coal city, revolts. Cathy can have it if it does.

Turn 4: Our scientists at Quaker State and Pennzoil get a breakthrough.

Turn 5: Great Prophet born in Babylon. I sleep him for a golden age.

Turn 6: Brennus cancels 2 fish deals.
Genetics in, research Robotics for Space Elevator

Turn 10: Brennus wants us to cancel deals with India. All it was was open borders so I agree.

Turn 11: St Louis joins the Russian Empire!

Roosevelt trades Coal for Hit Singles.

A transport brings the troops back home.

Turn 12: Robotics in, research Satellites, the other tech needed for space elevator
We win UN Secretary General re-election

Turn 13: Catherine wants Flight. I think it over, nah, let her research it. Now she's annoyed.

Turn 14: ROFL, we discover a source of coal near New York:

Turn 15: Roosevelt and Hammurabi won't trade Refrigeration

Sattelites due in 3 turns, I strongly suggest Boston builds the Space Elevator when it's done
I set research to Composites next for more spaceship parts and Modern Armor.

See if Roosevelt or Hammurabi will trade Refrigeration

I haven't won a lot with spaceship, apologies if I did anything

*Edit* Hmm, could've sworn I uploaded the save last night

 

[njorls]

Bumping, guess I forgot to add the save

 

[Sorceresss]

GOT IT (about 17 minutes later) ... but I must go to the university today, in preparation for the return of classes. Consequently, I will post my report & save in about 12 hours.

 

[doronron]

Looking forward to it. Good turnset, njorls.

 

[Sorceresss]

FINISHED ! I've had a tiresome day, running around in the university maze, in a heavy, hot & humid climate. I was dead tired when I started to play my turnset. Consequently, I played very cautiously, so that no impatient impulse would spoil your game : I did not do anything brilliant, but I did not leave to my successor any bad situation.

T.495 (1905 AD - njorls's last turn) :

1931 gold (+75) at a 90% RR
Research : Satellites
Catherine is annoyed (-3)
Gandhi is annoyed (-4)

T.496 (1906 AD - my T1) :

1.1 > Chicago has finished Forge. I select Pub. Transportation.
1.2 > San Francisco has finished Lab. I select Pub. Transportation.
1.3 > Miami has finished Ind. Park. I select Pub. Transportation.

T.497 (1907 AD - T2) : Boston has finished a Tank. I go for Hollywood !

T.498 (1908 AD - T3) :

3.1 > Satellites Research completed. I select
3.2 > Babylon has finished a Mech. Inf. I select Hospital.

T.499 (1909 AD - T4) :

4.1 > Seattle has finished Airport. I select Hospital.
4.2 > Miami has finished Pub. Transp. I select Lab.
4.3 > Akkad has finished Airport. I select SAM Infantry.

T.500 (1910 AD - T5) : Nothing special to report.

T.501 (1911 AD - T6) :

6.1 > Atlanta has finished Airport. I select Pub. Transp.
6.2 > San Francisco wishes to join the Babylonians.

T.502 (1912 AD - T7) : completed. I go for Fiber Optics.

T.503 (1913 AD - T8) :

8.1 > Chicago has finished Pub. Transp. I select Mall (we gals to shop!)
8.2 > SS Life Support completed and added to
8.3 > Philadelphia has finished SS/LS. I go for...another Mall !

T.504 (1914 AD - T9) :

9.1 > Miami has finished Lab. I select Library.
9.2 > Buffalo has finished Hospital. I select Jail (only 3 turns).

T.505 (1915 AD - T10) : New York has finished Factory. I go for...Mall !

T.506 (1916 AD - T11) :

11.1 > Philadelphia has finished Mall. I select Globe Theatre (only 5 turns).
11.2 > Atlanta has finished Pub. Transp. I go for...Mall.
11.3 > Seattle has finished Hospital. Another Mall !
11.4 > San Francisco has finished Pub. Transp. I select Fighter (quick & useful)
11.5 > Miami has finished Library. I select Colosseum (city has one ).

T.507 (1917 AD - T12) :

12.1 > Babylon has finished Jail. I select...Mall.
12.2 > Akkad has finished SAM Inf. I select Fighter (only 5 turns).
12.3 > Akkad wishes to return to the Babylonians. I answer .

T.508 (1918 AD - T13) :

13.1 > Philadelphia wants to join the Americans. And again .
13.2 > Miami has finished Colosseum. I select University (There's no more ).
13.3 > SS Thrusters completed and added to
13.4 > L.A. has finished the SS/T. Guess what? Mall !
13.5 > Buffalo has finished Jail. I select Theatre (fastest building available).

T.509 (1919 AD - T14) :

14.1 > Washington finished 3 Gorges Dam. I select Courthouse (only 2 turns).
14.2 > Boston has finished Hollywood. I select Intel. Agency (only 2 turns).

T.510 (1920 AD - T15) : Catherine wants us to break our deals with the Ethiopians. Since she is already annoyed and since I do not wish to make the situation any worse, I say YES.

CONCLUSION

1. I was very tired, so I played very prudently.
2. I did not want to launch any long-term project, leaving that to my successor...who will be able to resume the construction of SS components.
3. I did not spend any of the GP we had in reserve.
4. I did not change anything in the Spy Ops field.
5. Under my management, our Treasury jumped from 1931 gold to 8381 gold (+32 at 90% RR on my last turn).
6. pigswill shall be able to select a new Research on his very first turn.

SAVE >> http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/66970/MDR_AD-1920.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[azaris]

The American Empire is under a real and severe threat.

Cathy and Brennus both are gearing for war, Cathy now has tanks. They're both PO'd at Zara, but there's also a SoD of 12 tanks, 18 riflemen, 9 marines, and 14 cossacks in Mari. No real navy as of yet but she could flip and decide to target us instead. Note that if her invasion force sails from Mari it will land troops next to Washington on the same turn, making our navy futile.

 

[njorls]

So what do you think we should do?

Composites is needed for spaceship and we can get modern armor from that.

Or we could get advanced flight to counteract the tanks.

Kremlin gets obsoleted with Fiber Optics which finishes next turn, I would have preferred we save that tech for later to get more out of rush buying.

Or there's more of what we already got, a bomber attack on any stack that lands, some artillery, tanks mop up... concentrate more power in Washington and Babylon, since both could be invaded & landed next to on the same turn?

 

[azaris]

Modern age anti-stack warfare: artillery, bombers, gunships.

 

[pigswill]

Problem can be solved by blowing all of Sorceress' hoard on upgrading infantry to MI.That would be a bit drastic but we could certainly upgrade some infantry to garrison Washington. We need to be aware of the problem but its not (yet) a crisis.

Edit: having read the cross-posts good point from njorls re fibre optics and Kremlin, maybe put fibre optics on hold at the moment and switch to composites. Could also think about modern artillery, gunships etc. Upgrading defences ofBbabylon also seems like a good idea.

 

[doronron]

It has been a problem. I watched it form in my turnset -- that's why I was building bombers and battleships.

Anti-Tank Infantry, Fighters, Bombers, Mobile Artillery, Helicopters, with a mix of Mech Inf. to defend.

Can we reach AC before Cathy and Brennus decide we look like a tasty snack? Here we go.

 

[Sorceresss]

Sorry if I selected the Fiber Optics research first : I was too tired to evaluate its impact. Also, it's the very first time I get that far in a Civ 4 game ... I usually like to end my games earlier to experiment with new starts.

P.S. > If you guys want to get into a hot & heavy war against Catherine, go for it ! I will ask to skip my turnset and shall watch you kick her a** from the sidelines. I don't mind. I'm already "in over my head" in this game, anyway. I can understand that some might find winning by a Space Race somewhat boring.

 

[pigswill]

Here's the 1935 save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/90414/MDR_AD-1935.CivBeyondSwordSave

A fairly quiet set of turns. Various units got upgraded or built, our tanks are now MA, some of our infantry are MI. I even built/upgraded a couple of missile cruisers (with cruise missiles waiting to be loaded in Washington) just because I could (no idea how they work tho'). Various buildings got rushed particularly in Babylon to turn it into a modern metropolis.

Sundry Highlights:

T511.
Boston starts Space Elevator.
Swop research to Composites but lower research to 60% coz I shouldn't spend Sorceress' hard earned stash every set.
New York discovers Sushi, expensive but its no longer starving.
Chicago produces a GM which travels to Washington.
The Prophet of Babylon also heads to Washington.

T513.
Gandhi asks for OB, agreed.
Prophet arrives in Washington. GS heads for Miami.

T515.
Brennus declares on Sitting Bull.
GS arrives in Miami and forms an academy.

T517.
Sitting Bull asks us to stop trading with Brennus. Declined.

T518.
GM in Philadelphia, heads to Washington.

T519.
Composites > Fission.
Gift Mass Media to Roose, sell him combusion for 300g.
Sell chemistry to SB for 300g (I have a theory that if you sell techs for cash it doesn't count as trading with the enemy, however if you take a map or a tech in exchange then it does).


T520.
Zara asks us to stop trading with Brennus. Seems a shortage of celtic charm in this game. Declined anyway.
Zara trades us a fish(!) for pig (more sushi anyone?).
Sell steel to SB for 170g. (Don't want to get involved in the war but I don't really want Brennus to have an easy ride).

T523.
An event erupts near Los Angeles:

I've got a Creative Jeweller exec wandering around Russia but Catherine's in SP. Cunning plan: use UN to force environmentalism (gets Cat out of SP and our cottages have matured into towns ages ago):

T524.
The plan fails. Despite a massive majority Gandhi and Victoria defy the UN and the motion isn't passed .

T525.
Fission > Fibre Optics (no beakers so can be changed).
Rush buy Space Elevator in Boston.
We still have 9600 gold .

Cat really does seem to be getting ready for an invasion with a large but relatively primitive army:

Aftethoughts:
We're richer than when I started my set.

We're still behind in power. In one sense that's not important because of the way power is calculated. The problem is however that we don't know which direction Cat will swing (apparently accurate historical allusion). We could pre-empt by building a couple more transports, collecting our scattered fleets and attack. Ships could eliminate defences in one turn; bombers and missiles inflict initial damage then attack with MA, Seals, MI. Pre-emptive strike does sound very American.

Techwise we could now head for fusion and get the space ship built first. We could also complete the military techs, upgrade/build units and trash Cat first. We'll certainly reach AC before 2050 and well before anyone gets close to fusion. We probably have the techs and units available to build the space ship and trash Cat simultaneously.

We also have 5 GPs (Prophet, GS, GA, 2GM) and only need four (diff) for next GA. We've very likely to get Fusion GE without any essential wonders left to build. It would be silly to waste them.

Finally I'm sorry the set took so long. My machine was taking 1-2 minutes between turns and crashed twice.

 

[yena]

Got it. It seems like it could become an "interesting" set if we turn out to be Catherines target. My computer willing, I will play later today.