Drop The Bomb Incinerate Them All

[ferenginar]

The reseson we do not use weapons of mass destruction is not because the rules say that we can not use them, but because we fear the consequences, mutual destruction. No one wins.

ferenginar

 

[Dexter]

Originally posted by Vlad Tepes III
The statement you made really doesn't fit into the logical discussion I have tried to encourage. Maybe you just read the first post and made a response. Scroll down and read all. I think some fundamental truths are being explored.

Otherwise, please don't preach me a sermon. This popular ethical tripe is what I have heard all of my life. Its easy to say, "you don't know what war is like" but you probably know just as little as I do about real war. I can only speculate. It seems pretty mature and responsibe to condemn war but the really wise ones will try to understand it.

BTW billions HAVE NOT DIED for my freedom etc. Thats a nice way to think about it but the truth is that many have died for the agendas of others.

I did read all the posts but I still feel the same. Maybe I've never been apart of war so what do I know it could be great fun?!

I'm not religious or anything of that type I'm purely atheist but I remain stiff on my fact that war shouldn't be looked upon candidly.

BTW, Infact I kinda thought about the freedom part maybe I jus wasn't thinking?! I'm in the belief that all wars are started for religious reasons, and that's all war is about...

But that's for a different discussion!

 

[Vlad Tepes III]

You are purely an athiest?
Now I am confused because your point makes even less sense

If you really believe that there ABSOLUTELY IS NO GOD. Then what is right or wrong anyway? If someone responded with a post that said "War is wrong because god says so" that would make more sense. You are getting a moral law from a god, an absolute. You are saying that war is ugly and wrong because????.... Why? Because you said so? Thats the difference between ethics and morality. To an athiest there is no right and wrong, just what feels good. If I am a psychopath and it feels good for me to hurt others, then shouldn't I do what feels good?

This is a tangent but in a logical discussion there really is no such thing as a constistant athiest. Agnostics are different, agnostics say "if you show me enough evidence, I will be willing to listen" atheists say "There is no god, of that I am sure" To make that statement one would be using absolute knowledge of the universe, they would actually be a god themselves.
Anywhoo.

 

[justicemongoose]

I agree in part with vlad. i really only differ in where he says why wars are waged. while most wars in history have been started by dicators, etc. wanting land, power, or whatever and getting soldiers to fight by oppressing them, brainwashing them, or whatever, american soldiers don't HAVE to fight, and yet they do. There is room for morality in war. It all depends on the goals. Since the US generally fights to just end a problem and not actually to take anything, killing civilians makes no sense. If our goal were to eradicate a certain nation, then the methods would change with that new goal. Right and wrong do exist in war. War itself is not right or wrong. Like violence, like any action, it can be right or wrong. There are shades of gray, Vlad.
But like I said, i do agree with your general statements about war: it isn't going away, it is part of humanity, etc. I also like your statement about atheism. "How would we know if there was something we didn't know about?" is how I like to put it. Same idea.
Interesting thread!

 

[Marzipan]

. . . and while we're on the subject of quotes from Apocolypse Now, how about these. . .

"Sell the house, sell the car, sell the kids, I'm never coming home, forget it." - Kurtz in letter to wife

"I love the smell of napalm in the morning, it's the smell of . . . victory" - Air cav commander what's-his-name played by Robert Duvall

 

[Vlad Tepes III]

Actually the "sell the house sell the car sell the kids, I'm not coming back. FORGET IT" was a letter from another assassin sent before willard to kill Kurtz.

The name of the Lt. Col of the Air Cav who said "I love the smell of napalm..." was Kilgore.

Great flick. I base most of these morality of war concepts on Kurtz.

 

[Marzipan]

Originally posted by Vlad Tepes III
Actually the "sell the house sell the car sell the kids, I'm not coming back. FORGET IT" was a letter from another assassin sent before willard to kill Kurtz.

The name of the Lt. Col of the Air Cav who said "I love the smell of napalm..." was Kilgore.

Great flick. I base most of these morality of war concepts on Kurtz.

Oh yes I think you're right about that first one. Here's another one . . .

". . . never get off the boat!" - Chef

 

[Vlad Tepes III]

Yup thats a good one.
One of my fav Kurtz quotes is
"I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor. Thats my dream. My nightmare. Crawling, slithering along the edge of a straight razor, and surviving."

 

[Danja]

Why do you think that war is man's nature? Thats not right. Also, you are overlooking a big thing here: There is more to life than empires and conquest. HELLO!!! People! An empire is what happens when people try to live happily together. Please note happily. The point of life is not to make war. I think it is to be happy. The only reason we have war is because war made some people happy. But see, somebody planted a wall in our heads to keep us from going completely blood and carnage. That wall is called a concience. I am not a "be an angel" kind of guy. But a concience is what keeps us from going out of control. The leader of an empire has a concience. See, I bet it would be hard to live seeing a picture of a mutated and radiation soaked person, or a person with missing body parts, and know that you ordered that to thousands just so you could have land and money. Ethics are just as important to life as everything else. Just think about that.
:die!: If you did that to someone, could you be able to keep your mind on the upsides? 'Cause trust me, there are worse thing people can do than that.

 

[Vlad Tepes III]

Well, why don't you go live happily in a commune or wherever you live, while the adults go kill each other. Go gripe about the bloodthirsty warmongers that destroy "innocent" lives.

People like to dwell on the savageness of COMBAT, but war is about power, not bloodshed. The perfect general (as suntzu said) will win the field without a fight. Now, we have not yet seen the perfect general but I think the idea is valid. War is about power, not morals. We don't do something of this magnitude because its right. There are shades of grey on the battlefield. Right and Wrong, those are just words to the individual fighter, or even to the polititians who send them off to die. So go live happily as we are "supposed" to live, thinking with your conscience. But your ethics are going to be pretty stressed when tanks come rolling through your house?

Who mourns for the losers of ancient wars? No one, they have been wiped from the pages of history by the WINNERS. Everything that these peaceful folks were is gone. Its as though they never existed. That is the power of warfare.

 

[Danja]

I am disturbed by your point of view. You telling me t go off to a happy commune is the same as me telling you to go fight for the Taliban. Go. Lose a relative in your conquest for power. Take over the world. But my question is, what will you do then? Go do the Alpha Centauri thing? Take over the galaxy. Eventually, you would get stopped. And you would succumb to a leader who thinks the same about you. Just answer me. What is the point?

:rocket:

 

[Vlad Tepes III]

The point is: There is no point. In the secular and intellectual realm, if it feels good do it. Now these are all interesting ideas but I'm not going to kill anyone. Laws of morality and religion do mean something to me. But to many people, athiests and humanists in particular, they have no moral absolutes. But they still cling to these ethical ideas. Its ridiculous. If a person believes that there is no god, there are no consequences, then he will do whatever he wants.
I think that a lot of people don't believe in a higher level of being, etc but they are so used to hearing what is right or wrong, they don't ask WHY. If an athiest really believes in nothing, and understands this, then right and wrong should mean nothing to him.

Thats my point of view.

 

[Ren]

Originally posted by Vlad Tepes III
Why can't the world learn the lessons of CIV2? Happyness is found behind the lance, we should put these unnatural goals of peace aside and get together for some un-adulterated combat... I mean what would a roman soldier say about our battlefield morality.. "No killing civilians! Stop bombing afghanistan!" No way! He'd be the one raping the women and claiming the spoils! We are restricting war, making rules. Its time to shut those liberals up, and those whiney crybaby minorities. We should get back to our roots, lets not restrict ourselves when it comes to killing each other, by god its what we do best! After all, General Patton said "All of man's other endeavors pale in comparison to war"

Can I get an Amen!? Can I get a hallelujah?!

Amen Brother!

And what better way to eliminate Asia's over-population? :tank:

 

[Vlad Tepes III]

That original post was more of an attention geter than anything. It might be wise to ignore it.

 

[Rowan]

:crazyeyes Well VLAD, DROP THE BOMB>>>etc., certainly gets attention!
[dance] [dance]

 

[Ren]

Originally posted by Vlad Tepes III
It might be wise to ignore it.

Ummm...Errr......I knew that, but why did you post that as an initial post if it was to be ignored? :crazyeyes