D'Tesh

Keep in mind, with each and every pop added to the capital the new reborn is easier to build.

Also, it was a duel map... I couldn't fit that many cities in. :(

Only to a point. It's not that hard to get down to three or four turns even with a happy-cap, and only at most the first 24 pop can work the map. Then you're limited to Engineers or Citizens. (Maybe priests.)

Citizens are awful, so you need either Glory or one of the other unlimited Engineer civics. Or you can use an unlimited priest civic, if you have a high level Altar. So you need more late game techs, and by that time you might just use Unyielding Order.

Also, you can't use more than 345:hammers: per turn. Factor in production modifiers, lets say +125% (Godking, half the luxuries, Forge, Artisan shop, one master building), that's 154:hammers: raw. Let's say 4:hammers: each from the 24 first = 96:hammers:. If the specialists add 2:hammers: each at pop 53 you will be building one Reborn per turn, extra pop is wasted. Better specialists or better production modifier pushes that lower.

A 150 pop capital isn't worthless, but it gets hit hard by the rule of diminishing returns. The Tower of Complacency doesn't need to be blocked, because the benefit it provides is marginal at best. Scions have huge happy caps even without it and can effortlessly found new cities.

On a duel map, the production needed to build all those Reborn must have been several times what would have been necessary to conquer the world three times over.

So Tower of Complacency is blocked because it can be used with a gimmicky strategy? One that is still available through Unyielding Order? Why don't we block Spring because it can be used to spell dirty words in deserts?
 
If I have a 150 pop capital (i.e with the tower for Scion or just by being DTesh), I would immediatly go to the guild civic (the one with unlimited specialists) and I would add 125 scientists. They would produce a base 375 researches, but with the bonus would surely be around 800 or something. But that's not the most important...
I would also get something like 125x6 = 750 GP points per turn. Each GP can be used to boost research by 1200 points generally, or for others things...

That's why, unless I'm missing something, I'm against unlimited pop for the DTesh in their capital... or do something which is preventing them from having unlimited specialists.
 
My point is that those pop aren't free. You actually had to go out an get 150 pop somehow. Buying them from the Undercouncil for 10:gold: a pop is too easy. Building them as Reborn is too hard for it to be a viable strategy. Capturing them as slaves just might be the just right.

Also, if :gp: is your main concern, adding a -:gp:% to Binding Stones seems like a much better idea.


PS: After building 130 Reborn, you will have gotten enough great people that even at 750:gp: per turn it will take a while to get Great Sages.
 
I'm not speaking of the reborn strategy, but of my pet peeve :)

Any fallow civ which can have either 'no unhappiness' or 'unlimited specialists in city civic' is borked...

At least the Rife Mod prevent slaves to be bought from the slave market :)

I have another unrelated question: are horses supposed to be nightmare once in wastelands? Because I get that, but when I reload they are back to horses, so there is a bug, but I don't know if this is normal to have nightmares, or normal to have horses ...
 
My point is that those pop aren't free. You actually had to go out an get 150 pop somehow. Buying them from the Undercouncil for 10:gold: a pop is too easy. Building them as Reborn is too hard for it to be a viable strategy. Capturing them as slaves just might be the just right.

Also, if :gp: is your main concern, adding a -:gp:% to Binding Stones seems like a much better idea.


PS: After building 130 Reborn, you will have gotten enough great people that even at 750:gp: per turn it will take a while to get Great Sages.

Actually, dropping :gp: for the D'tesh would make sense... Rather difficult to get a :gp: out of a mindless undead. :p

I'm not speaking of the reborn strategy, but of my pet peeve :)

Any fallow civ which can have either 'no unhappiness' or 'unlimited specialists in city civic' is borked...

At least the Rife Mod prevent slaves to be bought from the slave market :)

I have another unrelated question: are horses supposed to be nightmare once in wastelands? Because I get that, but when I reload they are back to horses, so there is a bug, but I don't know if this is normal to have nightmares, or normal to have horses ...

Horses/Cows/Bison are meant to be Nightmare if a Corrupted Pasture is built on them. I just didn't make the plot hellish enough... Needs to be 51, not 11. Fixed next version.
 
how the world spell is unlocked, and what it does exactly?

Unlocked at a certain tech (Not sure of which one off the top of my head, think Way of the Wicked... Look it up in the Pedia, spell is 'Undeath's Dominion").

What it does is very simple. :lol: It provides a promotion to all your existing units that guarantees they will create a slave from combat. Lasts 15 turns.

What do you use it for? First big war, use it to guarantee a pop point from every victorious combat, assuming you can get the slaves home. Once grew from size 8 to size 34 from that spell.... :mischief:
 
Just a thought but i noticed you said you were going to limit them to one city in the future if you do that you might want to add some kind of flying unit to attack the civs on the other sides of an ocean i could be wrong but i don't think they have any at least i haven't seen one yet in my D'Tesh game
 
ooo, I like that! A unit that can be built on a non-coastal city and marched to the water, maybe with the pieces of the ship represented by a promotion. The promotions allows the "Construct Ship" ability beside water. The ship should have massive capacity, super high defence, as well as low attack and slow speed. The ship could have an ability next to land and when 'empty', "De-construct Ship" which re-creates the original land unit, placing the unit on land in the biggest friendly stack if one exists.

The abilities would require some fairly straight-forward python, therefore putting this out of the scope of my module. But it wouldn't be that hard to do for Valk if he decides to do the one (or two or three) city thing.

Edit: If anyone wants to give this a try, both abilities python and xml code would resemble the coding for creating a liche. You would have to add a python check for water (or land) on an adjacent tile (the tsunami spell would have that check). Finally the de-construct ship ability would need a targeting system (could use any spell that targets the largest stack) and a final check that might require a bit of work, ensuring that the ship about to be destroyed is empty. (I don't know if there is a simple way to check the capacity of a ship in python)
 
I'm not sure about a flying unit, but they would need something, yes. Will have to think on it....

What I'd LOVE would be some Ship of the Damned type thing, but you need ocean for a ship. Can convert it to a 'crew' unit when on land, maybe...


There are Jotnar units that can do this...would be easy to modify the code. :)
 
Excuse me if i brought back an old topic but i think i have a good idea for the legion
Remove the death affinity for troops, i agree that's too much extreme late game...
Instead make d'tesh apear early and work like some sort of barnaxus, if his power increase , his troop power increase. That fit the lore, the legion is the legion of one "man".
I think it should be a mix of fight ( some direct promotion gave promotion to other troop) and building.

I don't think that they should be able to build city. Instead my idea would be that if they destroy an other civ, they gain some council of four wich can found a city(with a +3 radius). And then depending on the civ they destroy , this council of four gave some kind of promotion depending on the civ they destroy.
If you look at how undead usually evolve in fantasy setting , they don't evolve on their own but with the power of who control them, and with the power of their original corpse.
 
I'm not going to do the D'tesh idea (Too much like Barnaxus), and have plans for the affinity but they require a better affinity system which I haven't started yet. :p

On cities: They don't. Not next version. They are able to build 3-4 cities (not sure on exact amount yet), can NOT build Settlements, and CAN take over conquered cities. So 3-4 standard cities, more if you conquer them. ;)
 
I love the imagery of the tall, Obsidian Spire on the horizon, growing bigger every day. The sky around it is constantly dark, like night, but feeling slightly off. The ground for miles around is nothing but ash and stone. Very little life is to be found, and that that does exist is twisted. As the Spire grows taller it can be seen farther and farther on Erebus, signaling to the mortal races that the time of D'tesh draws ever closer.

Why the hell do they need more than one city? ;)
 
If they had only one city they would definitely need one of the new traits coming in the next version to keep up to speed with their production. I forget if its been announced in the main forums yet though.

PS, anyone know if it IS/COULD BE possible for a city to work a radius of 4??? (That would be mega uber)
 
No Swink, it's been decided that won't happen. They'd be too OP with that, and I never thought I'd use the phrase "too OP" :p
 
I love the imagery of the tall, Obsidian Spire on the horizon, growing bigger every day. The sky around it is constantly dark, like night, but feeling slightly off. The ground for miles around is nothing but ash and stone. Very little life is to be found, and that that does exist is twisted. As the Spire grows taller it can be seen farther and farther or Erebus, signaling to the mortal races that the time of D'tesh draws ever closer.

Why the hell do they need more than one city? ;)

They don't; I only ever use one city. The others are there in case someone else would like more. :lol:

If they had only one city they would definitely need one of the new traits coming in the next version to keep up to speed with their production. I forget if its been announced in the main forums yet though.

PS, anyone know if it IS/COULD BE possible for a city to work a radius of 4??? (That would be mega uber)

The D'tesh will never get that ability. Nor will any other fallow civ; Far, far too powerful.

I believe it could be possible, but each step up past 2 requires shrinking the city screen... IIRC, it has to be shrunk for EVERYONE, as well. I wouldn't add a 4-tier city.
 
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