Dutch Better at Science then Koreans?

[MarigoldRan]

https://ibb.co/MSCWhHG

The three campuses (no library or university) shown in the middle are generating +42 science/turn. There's another one building in the North that will generate another +12 when built. Those 4 campuses are equivalent to 7 Seowons.

 

[iammaxhailme]

7 Seowons are cheaper to build than 4 Campuses, though. Unique districts build at half price, which is Korea's main strength, not the adjacency.

 

[MarigoldRan]

But you have to buy the sites to build the Seowons since building it next to city is suboptimal. Also, you need 7 cities for 7 seowons.

 

[Kwami]

I mean, anyone can be better than Korea if you get a ridiculously lucky map with really good adjacency bonuses. But usually, Korea is better. The average campus takes twice as long to build as a Seowon, has an adjacency bonus of less than four, and doesn't provide additional Science on mines.

But I know that this thread is pointless, so that's all for me.

 

[MarigoldRan]

Dutch campuses reliably start at +4 as long as you can find a river or a mountain/jungle. As Dutch, you have river bias so getting high adjacency campuses is reliable and easy.

Only gets better from there.

The Dutch adjacency bonuses are ridiculously strong. Free +2 for theater squares, industrial sites, and campuses. Easy to get from the get go. It's like they get a third of the Greek, Korean, and German economy bonuses.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Do you need a screenshot as Korea where the speed and turn numbers are roughly the same but the science per turn not 80 but sth. like 200+?

 

[Pietato]

Than, not then. Then means next. Also, no.

 

[Sostratus]

Three Kingdoms is the true OP early ability.
I’ll take the +4 campus that gives me science on mines AND food on farms- crucially allowing Korea to have plains be a growth tile before feudalism- over 7 science and not that.

Tge absolute worst part about most good campus adjacency is that you end up with maps like this where unless you’re inca, you are losing so many workable tiles to mountains.- which hurts your cities and placing all your other districts, especially IZs.
I love the Dutch but they aren’t really that consistent with the map. The polder continues to be extremely hit or miss (sadly!) and the leader ability might as well not exist. I think tweaking polder placement in exchange for toning down the food adjacency is what needs to happen to make them truly solid.

 

[MarigoldRan]

Do you need a screenshot as Korea where the speed and turn numbers are roughly the same but the science per turn not 80 but sth. like 200+?

If I had aimed for Dark Age, the numbers in the picture would be closer to 140. Also, this wasn't optimized. Could have gotten 2-3 more campuses up by now if I really tried (instead of those two settlers, lets say 5 more builders and more chops. Note the half completed campuses in Rotterdam and Hague and the general sloppiness of play). Base number would have been around 100, with Dark Age card up to 140. Also, no science city states nearby, which means no library +4 or +6. That's a big deal.

What the screen doesn't show are three more cities off screen that aren't contributing much except as land grab.

But yes, provide a picture of 200+ with no science city states.

I can provide this save and see what you can do with it.