oldStatesman
Cybernaut
Yes.RichardMNixon said:
4x DVD and 52X CD are common write speeeds..not read. Read speeds today are much much faster.
DVD vs. CD: What do you Prefer?
- Thread starter oagersnap
- Start date
4x DVD and 52X CD are common write speeeds..not read. Read speeds today are much much faster.
Alphawolf
Basileus, Founding Father
My computer doesn't have a DVD player 
(laptop does but can't play on that)so I'm glad it's coming out on CD.
Wolf
(laptop does but can't play on that)so I'm glad it's coming out on CD.Wolf
oldStatesman
Cybernaut
http://www.tomshardware.com/storage/20041102/Mujadaddy said:
http://www.plextor.com/english/support/faqs/G00013.htm
I will agree cdr speeds are at this time maxed out at 52X - but that is more because the research is now proceeding on DVD's...much like the common floppy stopped at 1.4 capacity; 2.8 was available but never popularized because the technology was outmoded by CD's. No one is going to spend R&D $$$ on an obsolescent technology. Since DVD drives will read CDS, there is no sense.
Similiarly Single layer DVD's are maxed out a 16X read speed...because the dual layer technology is more current and that is where the speed increases will come.
Finally, DVD speed multipliers are about 9X's those of CD drives - thus, a 16X DVD drive is the equivalent of a 154X speed cd rom drive in terms of read -response comparison time.
Of coarse, for movies, a 1X DVD drive is fine...it is only games and other data apps that make use of the faster speeds.
DVD's are also superior in capacity...4+ gig for single, 8+ gig for dual layer DVD compared to 700 MB for CD.
Well this thread makes for a perfect explanation of why North America got CDs and Europe got DVD. So far only 4 Europeans have voted for CD whereas 14 North Americans have. If you make this a ratio, for every one CD support in Europe there are 8.5 DVD supporters. In North America, on the other hand, the ratio is one CD supporter for every 3.5 DVD supporters. I have heard that DVD drives aren't as common in North America (my almost brand new computer that exceeds the recommend specs in almost every category doesn't have a DVD drive) and this seems to support this. Going with CD in North America and DVD in Europe seems to have been a smart marketing move. Get the most of the American market while only having to manufacture one disc in Europe for the same result.
oldStatesman
Cybernaut
Wow, that is some spin! You are good!spa said:
To me, it seems NA users have so far voted overwhelmingly for DVD's - 52 to 15.
And DVD's are common - most new pc's now come with DVD drives - since they can read both cd's and dvds. CD drives are old technology...and will soon go the way of the floppy. Oh, they will still be around for a long time, but as manufacturer's inventories on them decrease, DVD's wil replace them.
evil_linus
Chieftain
DVD. I don't want to change discs.
Rayzor
Chieftain
outcast said:
why exactly are you posting here then if you're never going to play it?
I agree whole-heartedly that DVD is better and that it will eventually replace CDs. However, there is always a lag before a technology becomes mainstream enough to make it worth not supporting the one it's replacing. We've seen that with video in the transition from VHS to DVD and before that with audio tapes to CDs.
The time it takes for tech lag to pass depends on many factors two of which are very important for computers: ease and costs. For the most part, Joe Public doesn't have the faintest idea how to install new hardware which makes upgrading unattractive and bothersome while buying a new machine is quite expensive. This means that with computers, the tech lag will be longer than with many other applications. Think of DVD video players in comparison. For $100 Joe Public can buy a new DVD player and all he has to know is how to plug it into the wall and the TV. Cheap and easy. It's no wonder that VHS died quickly while computer CDs continue to hang around.
So assuming the DVD/CD ratio for North America remains roughly the same as when I first posted and assuming that it's a fairly representative sample, then it would seem that even at a ratio where there are 4 DVD players for every 1 CD player, it still makes marketing sense for Firaxis to release on CD so as to not lose sales. In Europe, where the ratio is much more stacked against CDs, the cost of producing extra discs to serve a much smaller piece of the market is more than any lost sales will amount to. It's a simple a mathematical matter. How much does it cost to produce an additional disc versus how many sales will be lost from users who don't own DVD drives. If they released only on DVD it is true that many CD users might buy Civ later on, but by the time many do that, it might be months since the release date which means the game will sell for cheaper which means less profit.
In the long-run, games will move to DVD, but for the here and now which is what matters, it doesn't look like it makes financial sense for a game to cut out the sizeable minority of CD users in the North American market over the cost of producing one extra disc. In Europe the reverse seems to be true. So you see it's not about what we want or what is better or what is ideal it's about what maximizes profit while reaching the most possible customers. Isn't capitalism grand
The time it takes for tech lag to pass depends on many factors two of which are very important for computers: ease and costs. For the most part, Joe Public doesn't have the faintest idea how to install new hardware which makes upgrading unattractive and bothersome while buying a new machine is quite expensive. This means that with computers, the tech lag will be longer than with many other applications. Think of DVD video players in comparison. For $100 Joe Public can buy a new DVD player and all he has to know is how to plug it into the wall and the TV. Cheap and easy. It's no wonder that VHS died quickly while computer CDs continue to hang around.
So assuming the DVD/CD ratio for North America remains roughly the same as when I first posted and assuming that it's a fairly representative sample, then it would seem that even at a ratio where there are 4 DVD players for every 1 CD player, it still makes marketing sense for Firaxis to release on CD so as to not lose sales. In Europe, where the ratio is much more stacked against CDs, the cost of producing extra discs to serve a much smaller piece of the market is more than any lost sales will amount to. It's a simple a mathematical matter. How much does it cost to produce an additional disc versus how many sales will be lost from users who don't own DVD drives. If they released only on DVD it is true that many CD users might buy Civ later on, but by the time many do that, it might be months since the release date which means the game will sell for cheaper which means less profit.
In the long-run, games will move to DVD, but for the here and now which is what matters, it doesn't look like it makes financial sense for a game to cut out the sizeable minority of CD users in the North American market over the cost of producing one extra disc. In Europe the reverse seems to be true. So you see it's not about what we want or what is better or what is ideal it's about what maximizes profit while reaching the most possible customers. Isn't capitalism grand
I would be nice to be able to choose the carrier, wouldn't. Should not be hard since the game is published on CD and DVD both already. I fail to see the need for an American and a rest-of-the-world version. It makes me wonder: will patches be available for all the versions now or will this again be split into two every time? 
baboon
Warlord
I'm not going in to this topic again, I was told I worshipped Hitler by angry Americans at the comments at the main page 
agoodfella
Prince
spa,
very informative and interesting post. very cogent.
is your background in economics?
very informative and interesting post. very cogent.
is your background in economics?
To illustrate the situation another way. Say there are 5,000,000 potential customers in North America that want to buy Civ. At a 4:1 ratio this means that 1,250,000 of them only have a CD player. So 1,250,000 at $50 a pop is $62,500,000 in sales (not profit as you have to deduct all the costs of making and doing business). Still, if you're the CEO of a North American company are you going to say "Nah I don't need that marketshare. I think we've made enough money." Somehow I think not. Now I admit my example numbers are probably on the high side (I don't know how many units a star game like Civilization usually sells) and they're no doubt simplistic, but the principal remains the same no matter what numbers you plug in because it's a ratio.
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