Dwarven cities in down

[Serastrasz]

As a little explanation, why I am writing this: I like dwarves since the moment I first saw them in movies an read books about them. In FfH II they are very nice too. But there is a little problem I see very often. In Erebus maps often the start in regions with many hills, dry land with rare possibilities to build farms. So they don´t get far before beeing overrun by other factions with more lucky start locations.

In my opinion dwarves naturally belong to hills an mountains, building ther large and mighty cities under the ground. So they should get a +1 farming output on hills. They are born smiths and miners. They got many mines. And there is not unlimited valuable ore, so some tunnels are out of operation and could be used for something else than mining. Maybe to grow mushrooms so there mines get a +1 farming output.

In flat land this would make nearly no difference to now. But it would give them the unique ability of bulding real cities in the hills.

And I don´t think it would be more overpowered than the elves with their old wood. ^^

After all thank you for reading and sorry for my bad english, it´s not my mother language

 

[Valkrionn]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8139076&postcount=25

You might like that post.... Dwarven Mines are already in FFPlus.

 

[readercolin]

I believe that Valkrionn is trying this out in either his current or one of his upcoming releases of Fall Further Plus. Check the thread (should be in the Fall Further subtopic). If it works out, it will probably end up in Fall Further - otherwise, it will be modified and later end up in fall further.

Also, the Erebus mapscript reaaaly screws over the dwarves, and the dovolio as well. Try the dwarves out on highlands if you want some real dwarf action

-Colin

P.S. they're one of my favorite races too - the khazid at least. I consider the lurchip to be gnomes and not worthy of the name dwarf. Remember, gold is good, and you need more - no matter how much you currently have

Edit: Damn... beaten to the punch by the man himself... will have to be faster next time

 

[Azhral]

Bah, the Lurch are awesome. You show me a steeekin Gnome who's built a massive army of fireball spewing golems. They may be slow, but good luck stopping them. And although its not really fair in FFH, Lurch vs Khazad, Lurch will own up.

 

[Valkrionn]

I believe that Valkrionn is trying this out in either his current or one of his upcoming releases of Fall Further Plus. Check the thread (should be in the Fall Further subtopic). If it works out, it will probably end up in Fall Further - otherwise, it will be modified and later end up in fall further.

Also, the Erebus mapscript reaaaly screws over the dwarves, and the dovolio as well. Try the dwarves out on highlands if you want some real dwarf action

-Colin

P.S. they're one of my favorite races too - the khazid at least. I consider the lurchip to be gnomes and not worthy of the name dwarf. Remember, gold is good, and you need more - no matter how much you currently have

Edit: Damn... beaten to the punch by the man himself... will have to be faster next time

Haha, I just barely beat you there.

I love the Khazad. Main reason I finished the Dwarven Improvements so quickly once I got a workable idea... Although that idea was Shatner's, rather than my own.

Bah, the Lurch are awesome. You show me a steeekin Gnome who's built a massive army of fireball spewing golems. They may be slow, but good luck stopping them. And although its not really fair in FFH, Lurch vs Khazad, Lurch will own up.

I like the Luchuirp too, but not as much... Although one of the Minor Leaders in my mod has changed that a bit. Has the Craftmaster trait.... Mobility to all Golems? Yes, please.

 

[Serastrasz]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8139076&postcount=25

You might like that post.... Dwarven Mines are already in FFPlus.

That really sounds nice

 

[readercolin]

Bah - lurchip. A bunch of beardless stunties. They need worthless machines to fight for them. True dwarves take their axes right where they're needed - the opponents head.

To be serious though, I feel that the dwarves and their, um, excessive productiveness is far better than a golem army that cannot gain experience and moves very slowly. Actually, that is my biggest problem with golems - they can't get experience. Now, this does say good things for when you need to whip out an army in a hurry, but even in that case when you do manage to survive then the units you whipped out will be even stronger. Also, running apprenticeship, theocracy, or conquest, and getting form of the titan (or when playing organized and building the command posts), a basic axman can come out possibly with combat 2 and shock in some of your cities, or just combat 1 and shock, or combat 1 and cover fairly easily (i think you need combat 2 to get the anti-horseman one), which IMO is far better than the higher base strength + empower that the golems get - and even that is negated (at wood golems, axmen with iron, iron golems require champions with mithril) eventually. Now, admittedly that fireball spewing army is very nice. But I rarely see an AI that manages to get that up and working for them - heck, even one building golems in the first place is a bit rare.

A properly handled Lurchip is definitely a force to fear. That being said - the stunties I'd go with are the Khazid.

-Colin

P.S. And the stunties in the latest FFPlus are AWSOME - Dwarf Fortresses FTW!!!! (ok, auditors are nice too...)

 

[Lone Wolf]

A bunch of beardless stunties.

Garrim and Beeri have beards. Kandros doesn't.

But I rarely see an AI that manages to get that up and working for them

That's why the AI needs some readjustment. You can produce significant effects even with XML and rudimentary Python.

 

[Tholal]

Also, the Erebus mapscript reaaaly screws over the dwarves, and the dovolio as well. Try the dwarves out on highlands if you want some real dwarf action

I found the Perfect World 2 mapscript combined with Flavor start to be a great combination!

 

[Luckmann]

I love the idea of Cottage-like mines for the dwarves. I'd do it as something along these lines:

Stage One (Dwarven Quarry): +2 (like a normal mine).
Stage Two (Dwarven Outpost): +2 , +1 .
Stage Three (Dwarven Mine): +2 , +1 , +1 .
Stage Four (Dwarf Hall): +3 , +1 , +1 .
Stage Five (Dwarven Fortress): +3 , +2 , +1 , +20% Defense on tile.
* Replaces both Quarry and Mine.
* Connects all mineral resources aswell as marble.
* Recieves bonuses to mines and quarries, such as Blasting Powder and/or Arete.

 

[Spectral-Fremen]

I love the idea of Cottage-like mines for the dwarves. I'd do it as something along these lines:

Stage One (Dwarven Quarry): +2 (like a normal mine).
Stage Two (Dwarven Outpost): +2 , +1 .
Stage Three (Dwarven Mine): +2 , +1 , +1 .
Stage Four (Dwarf Hall): +3 , +1 , +1 .
Stage Five (Dwarven Fortress): +3 , +2 , +1 , +20% Defense on tile.
* Replaces both Quarry and Mine.
* Connects all mineral resources aswell as marble.
* Recieves bonuses to mines and quarries, such as Blasting Powder and/or Arete.

+1!!

Love this idea. It would encourage the use of something other then aristofarms too.

 

[readercolin]

In FFPlus, he actually went and made dwarven mines like pirate coves. Start by building a dwarven mine, eventually it turns into a dwarf fortress. But they cannot be built within two squares of each other, just like the pirate cove. The bad thing is, you can't have JUST dwarven mines. The good thing - even a city on flat grassland with no forests or workshops, you can now be producing 20-25 hammers in a city, with 4 dwarf fortresses in its borders. To counter this, farms now produce -1 food... I wouldn't recommend running aristocracy. I found the best place to build is in a bunch of hills, and proceed to dwarf fortress and windmill the heck out of it... however my only problem with that is it really doesn't fit the dwarfs to use windmills so much...

-Colin

 

[Onionsoilder]

however my only problem with that is it really doesn't fit the dwarfs to use windmills so much...

How so? Wind power is a great tool for crushing and processing ore, as well as milling fertilizer to help grow them cave mushrooms.

 

[readercolin]

I don't see windmills as fitting them because a dwarven city's hills should be surrounded by mines as the greedy buggers try to find gems, metals, etc. A windmill can never find a metal. On top of that, windmills are something that I would associate more with the lanuan or the ljosfalter, simply because there isn't much wind underground for dwarves to use. On the other hand, I would definately see watermills as something that the dwarves would use - workshops, not so much. Ideally (imo) a dwarven town would be built on a hill, with a bunch of hills around it, all of them with mines. Then the flatlands would be covered in farms or cottages, though I do agree with the change where they get -1 food from farms.

That being said, with the changes in FFPlus, I was able to settle my capital in a bunch of plains hills with only 2 mushrooms for food, and still bring my population up to size 8 without using any windmills. Windmills + industry and the population was around 26, with every square getting at least 3 production. Commerce wasn't great... but it could build just about any wonder in 5 turns or less. If the AI was halfway intelligent, that start wouldn't have worked, as they AI would have outteched me, but when I can pump out an axman or trebuchet a turn (even a champion if I had them) I probably would have still survived.

-Colin

 

[Azhral]

Easy answer. Give dwarves a unique improvement that replaces the windmill, but has the exact same stats. Mushroom farm or something.

 

[WarKirby]

I love the idea of Cottage-like mines for the dwarves. I'd do it as something along these lines:

Stage One (Dwarven Quarry): +2 (like a normal mine).
Stage Two (Dwarven Outpost): +2 , +1 .
Stage Three (Dwarven Mine): +2 , +1 , +1 .
Stage Four (Dwarf Hall): +3 , +1 , +1 .
Stage Five (Dwarven Fortress): +3 , +2 , +1 , +20% Defense on tile.
* Replaces both Quarry and Mine.
* Connects all mineral resources aswell as marble.
* Recieves bonuses to mines and quarries, such as Blasting Powder and/or Arete.

FF Plus essentially already has this. Though the yields are slightly better, and it only has 4 stages. And the names are slightly different. But it's 95% the same thing.

Seriously, play it. They have unique graphics and everything. Borrowed from one of the Kohan Packs walter posted.

 

[Luckmann]

FF Plus essentially already has this. Though the yields are slightly better, and it only has 4 stages. And the names are slightly different. But it's 95% the same thing.

Seriously, play it. They have unique graphics and everything. Borrowed from one of the Kohan Packs walter posted.

Yes, because I'm going to download a full mod filled with ill-fitting moar because I like one, two, or three aspects of it.

I'm extremely tired of the "FF has this" and "Play FF" spam that are infesting virtually every single thread. In this thread alone, out of 16 posts, 30,25% is FF (Plus) plugs or on the subject of FF. Despite there already being 3 posts saying the exact same thing, you felt an unstoppable urge to peddle it further!

Regardless, the FF Plus implimentation leaves a lot to be desired and is quite different. I wish I had the know-how to implement my own version, or at least the dedication to get it.