Chamaedrys
Emperor
Arexack_heretic said:
Yeah, that's the better idea! The dwarfs live in mine cities so their mines could act like villages. Maybe even as a replacement for normal villages.
Dwarves
- Thread starter Arexack_heretic
- Start date
Yeah, that's the better idea! The dwarfs live in mine cities so their mines could act like villages. Maybe even as a replacement for normal villages.
Arexack_heretic
Emperor
I added this to my unitInfos:
Obviously the models need to be modified somewhat (pickaxes/ +a wagon), but they will do for now.
Spoiler :
Obviously the models need to be modified somewhat (pickaxes/ +a wagon), but they will do for now.
Arexack_heretic
Emperor
And in ImprovementInfos:
3 Dwarf-only improvements:
-Dwarf mine: more chance of finding resource.
-Deep Shaft: Higher chance of finding Oar. +more production. long worker time. (for now removes other improvements, but if possible should req. a (dwarf) mine.
-Dwarf stronghold: buildable on hills only, replaces Fort. +100%def.
(preferably buildable in mountains enabling movement into m., but that needs miners able to move impassable, but not water.)
Upgradable mines are not yet in, but I did make a start. It is commented out right now (in the attachment, sorry: too long to post), and would replace the two dwarfmines if I put it in.
Right now they just use the 'mine' art. Later on that should be replaced by an L-system set (like villages), that looks good on hills.
My hope is that everytime a mine upgrades to a next level, it has a chance of finding ore.
How about enabling the 'bActsAsCity' option for Vaulted Halls? (what does it do?)
(A nice requirement for mine expansion could be connection to a 'tunnel'.)
Spoiler :
3 Dwarf-only improvements:
-Dwarf mine: more chance of finding resource.
-Deep Shaft: Higher chance of finding Oar. +more production. long worker time. (for now removes other improvements, but if possible should req. a (dwarf) mine.
-Dwarf stronghold: buildable on hills only, replaces Fort. +100%def.
(preferably buildable in mountains enabling movement into m., but that needs miners able to move impassable, but not water.)
Upgradable mines are not yet in, but I did make a start. It is commented out right now (in the attachment, sorry: too long to post), and would replace the two dwarfmines if I put it in.
Right now they just use the 'mine' art. Later on that should be replaced by an L-system set (like villages), that looks good on hills.
My hope is that everytime a mine upgrades to a next level, it has a chance of finding ore.
How about enabling the 'bActsAsCity' option for Vaulted Halls? (what does it do?)
(A nice requirement for mine expansion could be connection to a 'tunnel'.)
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
thats a great idea, having levelable mines for dwarves 
Arexack_heretic
Emperor
(one also needs to add the stuff to 'Builds' and civilizationInfos; UUs.).
1) I still have numerous error messages popping up. For the first 3 improvements.
2) Haven't got time this week to fix anything properly.
3) I don't think I added food production for the Halls. Should I?
4) Disable normal villages for dwarfs?
1) I still have numerous error messages popping up. For the first 3 improvements.
2) Haven't got time this week to fix anything properly.
3) I don't think I added food production for the Halls. Should I?
4) Disable normal villages for dwarfs?
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
why would halls produce food? they are mining oriented. perhaps have another improvement "Mushroom Farm" to increace food...
i think, if the mines do exactly what the villages do, then disable them yes. but if it reduces the gold income, keep the villages
i think, if the mines do exactly what the villages do, then disable them yes. but if it reduces the gold income, keep the villages
Arexack_heretic
Emperor
Yeah...Food...because the dwarves trade production for human grown wheat.
(Humans have a greater knack for producing food by toiling in the muck of the flatlands. So dwarves rather work in the mines, a proper dwarven occupation, and trade the fruit of their labours (good Iron and swords) for human foodstuffs.)
Also I thought maybe the great dwarven middens contain cellars for growing mushrooms and breeding blind cave-fish.
....But, you are probably right about it being silly. and unneccecary. the farms surrounding hills and mountains produce enough.
Fixed a couple of errors. only a >space< somewere is left disrupting my XML.
I think I'll add the mines that become underground towns.
Replacing the two seperate minelevels.
Having multiple options when building mines, I always choose the best.
(One builds only once, but can reap the bonusses eternally)
To prevent the Dwarven Mine equivalent of cottage spamming, Ill add some superb improvements to compete with them for mountain/hill tiles.
-The Un-takable Dwarven Mountain Stronghold.
-Foundry. Similar to alchemist...may not be built....Ideas?
-Dwarven Mill. increases food production of mountain/hill-tile.
-Tunnel entrance "Great Gate". allows units access to the underground. (only buildable on mountaintiles.
Longer term:
-add mushroom resource...becomes visible on invention of tunneling.
-shroom farm?
requiring Python:
-tunnels.
-walking/building on mountaintiles.
Dwarves could really benefit from some form of transport-unit(s),
perhaps a baloon, cart or steamwagon.
The fighting ability of settlers and workers in the early game is nicely balanced by the dwarf tendency to move slowly. Only later in the game, when units start to upgrade is it neccesary to give them added mobility.
-Think about buildings and special units (items!) that fuel the Dwarven thirst for gems/gold/silver etc.
-One thing we can do right now is give the dwarf-palace happy and culture bonusses for luxuries.
(Humans have a greater knack for producing food by toiling in the muck of the flatlands. So dwarves rather work in the mines, a proper dwarven occupation, and trade the fruit of their labours (good Iron and swords) for human foodstuffs.)
Also I thought maybe the great dwarven middens contain cellars for growing mushrooms and breeding blind cave-fish.
....But, you are probably right about it being silly. and unneccecary. the farms surrounding hills and mountains produce enough.
Fixed a couple of errors. only a >space< somewere is left disrupting my XML.
I think I'll add the mines that become underground towns.
Replacing the two seperate minelevels.
Having multiple options when building mines, I always choose the best.
(One builds only once, but can reap the bonusses eternally)
To prevent the Dwarven Mine equivalent of cottage spamming, Ill add some superb improvements to compete with them for mountain/hill tiles.
-The Un-takable Dwarven Mountain Stronghold.
-Foundry. Similar to alchemist...may not be built....Ideas?
-Dwarven Mill. increases food production of mountain/hill-tile.
-Tunnel entrance "Great Gate". allows units access to the underground. (only buildable on mountaintiles.
Longer term:
-add mushroom resource...becomes visible on invention of tunneling.
-shroom farm?
requiring Python:
-tunnels.
-walking/building on mountaintiles.
Dwarves could really benefit from some form of transport-unit(s),
perhaps a baloon, cart or steamwagon.
The fighting ability of settlers and workers in the early game is nicely balanced by the dwarf tendency to move slowly. Only later in the game, when units start to upgrade is it neccesary to give them added mobility.
-Think about buildings and special units (items!) that fuel the Dwarven thirst for gems/gold/silver etc.
-One thing we can do right now is give the dwarf-palace happy and culture bonusses for luxuries.
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
the Dwarven stronghold that is 'untakeable' would be far too good an improvement. just pop a couple of those around a city, fill them with units and just smake the enemy as they waltze straight through your forces, unable to do a thing about the harrassing dwarves 
Foundary could be good, build it on coal/ next to coal?
Dwarven mill i like
thinking Dwarf Rock Bread 
tunnel entrance is also good. make it avaliable to skaven goblins and darkelves too.
mushroom farm should also be avaliable to goblins as a strategic resource for fanatics etc
Foundary could be good, build it on coal/ next to coal?
Dwarven mill i like
thinking Dwarf Rock Bread tunnel entrance is also good. make it avaliable to skaven goblins and darkelves too.
mushroom farm should also be avaliable to goblins as a strategic resource for fanatics etc
Arexack_heretic
Emperor
I expressed myself poetically. 
Dwarven fortresses are not really untakable, they just have great defensive bonus. 50-100% or so, plus the bonus from hills, as they are supposedly only buildable in hills.
If able to build on mountains, they would need to enable movement of units other than dwarfworkers to the site, also enabling ememy to attack them.
As for building next to a city, why not?
The Dwarf has to choose between production or defence if building in own territory.
It would take a considderable number of turns or a considderable stack of miners to build such a fortress next to an enemy city.
Dwarven units are SLOW, they are not likely to be harrying anyone.
I think even cavalry should be half speed (ponies) if allowed at all.
Dwarf rock bread scones of doom magic item
Dwarven fortresses are not really untakable, they just have great defensive bonus. 50-100% or so, plus the bonus from hills, as they are supposedly only buildable in hills.
If able to build on mountains, they would need to enable movement of units other than dwarfworkers to the site, also enabling ememy to attack them.
As for building next to a city, why not?
The Dwarf has to choose between production or defence if building in own territory.
It would take a considderable number of turns or a considderable stack of miners to build such a fortress next to an enemy city.
Dwarven units are SLOW, they are not likely to be harrying anyone.
I think even cavalry should be half speed (ponies) if allowed at all.
Dwarf rock bread
scones of doom magic item
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
"your Dwarven Baker unit has killed an enemy Dragon with its Scones of Doom..."
oh i see what you menat by 'untakeable'
oh i see what you menat by 'untakeable'
Arexack_heretic
Emperor
*bump*
previous work was lost, but working on this again now.
WORKERS : TOWNSFOLK / MINERS -prospectors
townsfolk can build agricultural and financial improvements and dwarf towns (sacrifices),
miners can build dwarven-mines (sacrifices), dwarf-strongholds and industrial buildings
miners gain free XP and can be upgraded to a prospector.
prospectors can cast a 'prospect' spell, that costs 200gold and has a probability to find resources, prospector is imobilized for several turns.
ETC
previous work was lost, but working on this again now.
WORKERS : TOWNSFOLK / MINERS -prospectors
townsfolk can build agricultural and financial improvements and dwarf towns (sacrifices),
miners can build dwarven-mines (sacrifices), dwarf-strongholds and industrial buildings
miners gain free XP and can be upgraded to a prospector.
prospectors can cast a 'prospect' spell, that costs 200gold and has a probability to find resources, prospector is imobilized for several turns.
ETC
How about 
producing buildings like the Slaughterhouse? In addition to the mushroom resource (or maybe the Underground Farm building) why not have Underground Fisheries? Something "minor" like +1 In the Mod I always try to nab me the Currency tech just so I can get the food bonus.
I really like the idea of the cities looking like a big mountain hold too. Dwarves in WFB and D&D (where I got the idea for the underground fishery) are relatively similar, they have a big ol' gate leading to the hold, but have trade settlements above land so that thieving greedy gits don't get to see their riches inside.
producing buildings like the Slaughterhouse? In addition to the mushroom resource (or maybe the Underground Farm building) why not have Underground Fisheries? Something "minor" like +1 In the Mod I always try to nab me the Currency tech just so I can get the food bonus.I really like the idea of the cities looking like a big mountain hold too. Dwarves in WFB and D&D (where I got the idea for the underground fishery) are relatively similar, they have a big ol' gate leading to the hold, but have trade settlements above land so that thieving greedy gits don't get to see their riches inside.
Arexack_heretic
Emperor
I currently have a mushroom farm, with placeholder graphics and currently buildable at too many locations.
and a dwarven bakery that is buildable on rivertiles/freshwatertiles/marsh/mud/swamp/toad
using the workshop graphix.
I like the idea of fisheries.
I'll play around with little 'worked' boats on riverside tiles
some dwarven city-buildings could generate some food too.
but I don't think dwarves should grow too quickly.
--
my levelable mines don't seem to level up.
--
building cities in mountains would be nice, but I think is still impossible.
and a dwarven bakery that is buildable on rivertiles/freshwatertiles/marsh/mud/swamp/toad
using the workshop graphix.
I like the idea of fisheries.
I'll play around with little 'worked' boats on riverside tiles
some dwarven city-buildings could generate some food too.
but I don't think dwarves should grow too quickly.
--
my levelable mines don't seem to level up.
--
building cities in mountains would be nice, but I think is still impossible.
True. These buildings should be available only at later techs (starting the earliest with currency).
That way they are not so much for growth but for allowing that one or two extra specialist. on the WFB 1.03b map I can't wait to get currency because that one extra really makes a difference.
You are right though, too much in the beginning will make dwarves grow way too fast for their concept. I love their production rate though! 
buildings should be available only at later techs (starting the earliest with currency).That way they are not so much for growth but for allowing that one or two extra specialist. on the WFB 1.03b map I can't wait to get currency because that one extra
really makes a difference. You are right though, too much
in the beginning will make dwarves grow way too fast for their concept. I love their production rate though!
Arexack_heretic
Emperor
hehe, just tested what I got so far.
the mushroom bonus cropped up all over the place, mushroom farms were way too good being buildable in all irrigated forest tiles, I'm going to limit them to hills only as I intended I probably need to remove the featureMakeValids, oh well. Also there was a 25% chance of creating mushrooms in a farm tile.
unfortunately I got a CTD. :/
--
anyone know how to destroy tile-bonus ?
...maybe I can make it a feature instead of a bonus and have it spread
make it
unless gobbo/dwarf/skaven and have TECH_HERBALISM
others will have to remove it like fallout, before building.
and then make shroomfarms buildable only on that.
...but I liked the sight of stools between the trees.
the mushroom bonus cropped up all over the place, mushroom farms were way too good being buildable in all irrigated forest tiles, I'm going to limit them to hills only as I intended I probably need to remove the featureMakeValids, oh well. Also there was a 25% chance of creating mushrooms in a farm tile.
unfortunately I got a CTD. :/
--
anyone know how to destroy tile-bonus ?
...maybe I can make it a feature instead of a bonus and have it spread
make it
unless gobbo/dwarf/skaven and have TECH_HERBALISMothers will have to remove it like fallout, before building.
and then make shroomfarms buildable only on that.
...but I liked the sight of stools between the trees.
hehe, just tested what I got so far.
the mushroom bonus cropped up all over the place, mushroom farms were way too good being buildable in all irrigated forest tiles, I'm going to limit them to hills only as I intended I probably need to remove the featureMakeValids, oh well. Also there was a 25% chance of creating mushrooms in a farm tile.
unfortunately I got a CTD. :/
--
anyone know how to destroy tile-bonus ?
...maybe I can make it a feature instead of a bonus and have it spread
make it
others will have to remove it like fallout, before building.
and then make shroomfarms buildable only on that.
...but I liked the sight of stools between the trees.
Were you trying to build mushroom farms on forests a la Elven farms? Would that mean you'd have to have Dwarven Workers who can build Shroom farms?
Think you could make them a civ specific resource like the Lanun in FFH with pearls? That way they get seeded in the map along with other resources but only a few civs get to see and use them with that farm of yours.
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
i was thinking that shooms would be a civ specific resource for dwarves and gobbos only. (like deadliver just said)
what graphics are you using for the mushrooms? because i made some a while back, as well as monster resources. i just never got around to implementing htem.
what graphics are you using for the mushrooms? because i made some a while back, as well as monster resources. i just never got around to implementing htem.
Lama,
Do you know if civ specific resources are hard to implement/code? How the unit Dwarf Wagon? UU that you camp in someone elses city and it converts gold into food? In an earlier post the concept of dwarves trading their stuff for food was brought up...in another MOD that I play *cough cough* they have gypsy wagons that suck gold and culture...think someone could program them to instead contribute a
or a 
to the city camped in and trade/steal a or something?
All of my opinions btw assume that the surrounding terrain of a dwarven city is gonna be similar to that in the 1.03 map, hills with crazy mountains all around.
Man I wish I could help you guys but I have zero programming skills. Maybe I should look into this Python thang. I much rather try to help making gfx...what programs would I need to do this do you know? Or do you know where I can look to find out?
In the mean time I am more than happy to contribute to the development forums.
Do you know if civ specific resources are hard to implement/code? How the unit Dwarf Wagon? UU that you camp in someone elses city and it converts gold into food? In an earlier post the concept of dwarves trading their stuff for food was brought up...in another MOD that I play *cough cough* they have gypsy wagons that suck gold and culture...think someone could program them to instead contribute a
or a to the city camped in and trade/steal a or something? All of my opinions btw assume that the surrounding terrain of a dwarven city is gonna be similar to that in the 1.03 map, hills with crazy mountains all around.
Man I wish I could help you guys but I have zero programming skills. Maybe I should look into this Python thang. I much rather try to help making gfx...what programs would I need to do this do you know? Or do you know where I can look to find out?
In the mean time I am more than happy to contribute to the development forums.
Arexack_heretic
Emperor
I know.
I was hoping you would post them to me, or tell me the upload location.
(I sent you a mail and replied to the SMAC thread and everything...
)
Currently I'm using the marble-art.
I first had it as a positive bonus for all, but now it is negative, unless a farm is built on it. and only some races can farm it, so i need a bonus-remover-improvement
SO.
bonus: works (too) well, but don't know how to remove it from tiles.
boni can crop up anywhere.
Feature: works as well and can be removed easilly, but I like mixing trees with mushrooms.
both feature and boni can be discovered or spread by improvements, but if I find boni by building the farm, I cannot use the bonus as a requirement for building a farm(obviously, chicken vs egg dilemma), also this leads to unlimited forrest spamming by dwarfs while I want them to create lumber instead.
features can spread instead of 'crop up' and improvements can enhance this.
so I like the features of features, but I want trees too.
I like the cluttered map, so i like mushrooms to be visible to all allways. ...
---
edit. artists are needed too. and brainstorming is always fun.
for art you'll need to get a dds convertor and a grafics program.
(the former can be found in the tutorial part of these forums, search for rabbit_white and the Great_Apple etal.)
for unit editing more extensive than reskinning, you'll need 3dSMAX 6 or 7 or blender, their nif-plugins for CivIV. Some limited boning of models and limb-swapping can be done in nif-scope, but this is really not working too well (for me at least).
---
interesting concept that of the dwarven trader unit. I had forgotten about it.
It will require some thinking though.
maybe dwarves could get extra food bonus from some grains-resources, because they are unable to farm them themselves (I disabled the dwarven-crafter's farming ability... For barley and grapes they make exception.) they would need to trade for them.
A unit able to force a trade (IF the recipient has >2 grain-resource AND IF the dwarf has some commodity-resource >2) would be nice.
Or
'organise trade-party' costs 150gold, makes the trader mobile.
move trader unit to an opponent's city. (explore/spy AI)
(if city-food>50%)
use trade-'spell'.
determine city food level = iFoodPercentage
deduct from dwarf-cash: 10000gold/(150-iFoodPercentage) {i.e. 50-100 gold}
(return remaining gold to vault)
take from city 50?-food,
convert unit to trader-'food' who has a 'return to friendly city'AI
in friendly, dwarf city use 'offload cargo-spell' this awards the 50? food to the city.
and kills the unit ? or converts it back to the trader?
If trader is killed, 150gold minimally changes hands.
if a returning trader is captured, he is converted to a great merchant. or the attacker recieves 50food in nearby city.
...maybe a bit complex. >..<
ps sacrificing dwarf workers to build towns and dwarven mines slows things down considerably...
PPS Do we have unit that can 'airlift'-equivalent in WHFB?
(it might be handy for subterranian settlers.)
I was hoping you would post them to me, or tell me the upload location.
(I sent you a mail and replied to the SMAC thread and everything...
)Currently I'm using the marble-art.
I first had it as a positive bonus for all, but now it is negative, unless a farm is built on it. and only some races can farm it, so i need a bonus-remover-improvement
SO.
bonus: works (too) well, but don't know how to remove it from tiles.
boni can crop up anywhere.
Feature: works as well and can be removed easilly, but I like mixing trees with mushrooms.
both feature and boni can be discovered or spread by improvements, but if I find boni by building the farm, I cannot use the bonus as a requirement for building a farm(obviously, chicken vs egg dilemma), also this leads to unlimited forrest spamming by dwarfs while I want them to create lumber instead.
features can spread instead of 'crop up' and improvements can enhance this.
so I like the features of features, but I want trees too.
I like the cluttered map, so i like mushrooms to be visible to all allways. ...
---
edit. artists are needed too. and brainstorming is always fun.
for art you'll need to get a dds convertor and a grafics program.
(the former can be found in the tutorial part of these forums, search for rabbit_white and the Great_Apple etal.)
for unit editing more extensive than reskinning, you'll need 3dSMAX 6 or 7 or blender, their nif-plugins for CivIV. Some limited boning of models and limb-swapping can be done in nif-scope, but this is really not working too well (for me at least).
---
interesting concept that of the dwarven trader unit. I had forgotten about it.
It will require some thinking though.
maybe dwarves could get extra food bonus from some grains-resources, because they are unable to farm them themselves (I disabled the dwarven-crafter's farming ability... For barley and grapes they make exception.) they would need to trade for them.
A unit able to force a trade (IF the recipient has >2 grain-resource AND IF the dwarf has some commodity-resource >2) would be nice.
Or
'organise trade-party' costs 150gold, makes the trader mobile.
move trader unit to an opponent's city. (explore/spy AI)
(if city-food>50%)
use trade-'spell'.
determine city food level = iFoodPercentage
deduct from dwarf-cash: 10000gold/(150-iFoodPercentage) {i.e. 50-100 gold}
(return remaining gold to vault)
take from city 50?-food,
convert unit to trader-'food' who has a 'return to friendly city'AI
in friendly, dwarf city use 'offload cargo-spell' this awards the 50? food to the city.
and kills the unit ? or converts it back to the trader?
If trader is killed, 150gold minimally changes hands.
if a returning trader is captured, he is converted to a great merchant. or the attacker recieves 50food in nearby city.
...maybe a bit complex. >..<
ps sacrificing dwarf workers to build towns and dwarven mines slows things down considerably...
PPS Do we have unit that can 'airlift'-equivalent in WHFB?
(it might be handy for subterranian settlers.)
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
well civ specific resources im pretty sure would just involve giveing that civ a unique non tradable tech that reveals that resource for them only. but there is probably a more elegant solution than this.
also, the dwarf caravans, im assuming you mean converts the dwarf players gold into food? as in the dwarves are buying food from the other civ? the gypsey wagons in FfH are cool, but im not sure how well they fit into WH.
well if your intersted in helping out and have never done civ modding before you can try your hand at simple XML modding, just brows through the tutorial forums, theres some great stuff in there.
or if you would prefer helping out with art you could try out 3D moddling and help with making buildigns and units, althoug this is more involved than XML, it is much more fun (for me personally). you can use Blender, a free 3D modling program. again look through the tutorials forum.
but if you cant figure those out, its no problem, were in need of good bug hunters and player feed back. ideas and concepts etc. and if you have an understanding if the WH world then thats even better!
oh, yeh sure here is the LINK.
i think it would be better if only forested/jungle grassland hills could get the mushroom resource, and then the forest is cleared to use the resource. this would make the resource more rare (we could make a new improvement called mushroom farm, which could be a big mound wit hmushrooms growing in caverns, and then some trees around it? )
yeh thats definately over complex
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