Archon_Wing
Vote for me or die
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But but but, if the flood comes out when he's building a monument and you finished a builder, who's laughing now?
Early disaster is too destructive
- Thread starter myclan
- Start date
But but but, if the flood comes out when he's building a monument and you finished a builder, who's laughing now?
Hahaha ironically if you had opened builder and went pottery first you'd have a ton of faith tiles and 3 free housing plus future immunity from flood for those builder charges.
Just to show that builder first is especially great as China on flood plains.
That said, scout then monument is too ambitious of an opening. Need slingers or warriors!
Just to show that builder first is especially great as China on flood plains.
That said, scout then monument is too ambitious of an opening. Need slingers or warriors!
Bibor
Doomsday Machine
Droughts can be completely avoided by leaving forests, marshes or jungles dotted into your landscape (can be lumbermilled), or fixed by planting forests with conservation.
Don't make gaps wider than 2 hexes wide without some sort of vegetation in-between (in all directions).
turn this:
coast--plains--plains--plainshill--plains--mountain
into this:
coast--plains--forest--plainshill--plains--mountain
Don't make gaps wider than 2 hexes wide without some sort of vegetation in-between (in all directions).
turn this:
coast--plains--plains--plainshill--plains--mountain
into this:
coast--plains--forest--plainshill--plains--mountain
LOL, everything's very easy...Except for when it's not.
A one-city civ at such an early stage of the game only has so much to work with. I suspect since the OP was playing China, they were chasing the Great Bath, which has to be placed on a flood plain, or Stonehenge, which may have to be placed on one.
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
Let's all admit that there is a difference between the early and late game situation in respect to disasters and their effects, and your resources to deal with/recover from them.
In the early game, when it is a turn by turn race to get your first Scout/Slinger/Monument/Great Bath or whatever out NOW and even a single overlooked barbarian camp nearby can be another 'natural' disaster, everything is critical. A flood that wipes out the effects of your first Builder or an event that reduces the strength of your only Warrior can be devastating.
In the late game, even in as extreme a case as the example cited above, where a major city of 12 population is reduced to 3 by multi-turn disasters, one assumes that it isn't your only city, and possibly not even your largest or only 12 Pop city. You presumably have Options to produce/buy Builders somewhere quickly and start recovery immediately. You have resources/Technologies to change the landscape/map in your favor, as @Bibor suggests. There is, simply, no single Disaster or set of disasters that will completely stop you in the late game.
Mind you, they may be Tear Your Hair Out Screaming Threatening To Throw Your Computer Through The Window annoying, but they aren't necessarily Doom of your Game events. In the early game, a sufficiently nasty natural disaster can set you back so badly that even the AI can beat you.
I suggest, therefore, that if a mechanism or set of mechanisms is needed to 'alleviate' Disasters (and I'm not really convinced of that need) then it should probably focus on the early game, when a single semi-random event (Tornados in the Mountains!) can effectively end your game.
In the early game, when it is a turn by turn race to get your first Scout/Slinger/Monument/Great Bath or whatever out NOW and even a single overlooked barbarian camp nearby can be another 'natural' disaster, everything is critical. A flood that wipes out the effects of your first Builder or an event that reduces the strength of your only Warrior can be devastating.
In the late game, even in as extreme a case as the example cited above, where a major city of 12 population is reduced to 3 by multi-turn disasters, one assumes that it isn't your only city, and possibly not even your largest or only 12 Pop city. You presumably have Options to produce/buy Builders somewhere quickly and start recovery immediately. You have resources/Technologies to change the landscape/map in your favor, as @Bibor suggests. There is, simply, no single Disaster or set of disasters that will completely stop you in the late game.
Mind you, they may be Tear Your Hair Out Screaming Threatening To Throw Your Computer Through The Window annoying, but they aren't necessarily Doom of your Game events. In the early game, a sufficiently nasty natural disaster can set you back so badly that even the AI can beat you.
I suggest, therefore, that if a mechanism or set of mechanisms is needed to 'alleviate' Disasters (and I'm not really convinced of that need) then it should probably focus on the early game, when a single semi-random event (Tornados in the Mountains!) can effectively end your game.
Bibor
Doomsday Machine
Can confirm, barbs are back with a vengeance. If that scout makes it back to camp, you pretty much need an army and/or navy to clear it up. Overlooked camps are actually worse than tornadoes.
I've had situations quite often where parts of the world were unpassable because of barbs, and this includes naval passages plagued by barb galleys. You send in one galley or warrior, thinking it's enough and then the surprise.
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- Joined
- Apr 11, 2011
- Messages
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Late game disasters are fine, early game can be devastating
Barbs you can avoid most of the time, for a start, think twice before settling on a hill where a scout can see you from 3 tiles away. You become a barb beacon.
The barbarian Siege Dog
Barbs you can avoid most of the time, for a start, think twice before settling on a hill where a scout can see you from 3 tiles away. You become a barb beacon.
The barbarian Siege Dog
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
Yep, since I got the Scout-Cat graphic mod installed, which includes the Barbarian Scouts, I've begun to feel like an In-Game Scratching Post . . .
King of Prussia
Prince
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2011
- Messages
- 475
i believe dams only stop flooding from happening on the river they belong to. which means if you have more than one river that meet up, the other river is still not protected by the others dam.
though i could be wrong on that.
though i could be wrong on that.
You're absolutely right. You can even see in the picture the two different rivers.
Also dams help tremendously in flood prevention downstream, not so much upstream and certainly not upstream and another river over.
Well, I don't mind early disasters being destructive any more than I mind other early-game catastrophes. Which is to say, a re-roll is a re-roll is a re-roll.
Indeed, I wish some disasters could outright wipe out a city (not a capital, of course).
Indeed, I wish some disasters could outright wipe out a city (not a capital, of course).
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
This would certainly make the game more dramatic, but we're not going to see it until founding and building up new cities gets a lot easier in the game. Since Civ IV, each individual city has gotten more important to the play of the game, and the gamer's or AI's ability to found and develop new cities has gotten harder and harder. That leads inevitably to the situation we have now, where Capitals cannot be destroyed without a Mod, Barbarians cannot take a city by themselves even when its HP and defenses are reduced to Zero, and many experienced gamers simply won't found a city in the last half of the game because it cannot be developed usefully in time to have any effect.
Alas, to change all that would require a rework of too many major elements of the game, to reverse a trend that has now been in effect for two iterations of the game (Civ V and VI). I don't see it happening - much as I might like it to.
Sostratus
Deity
In general I think the balance of early game super disasters being able to drop 6-10 fertility on you while simultaneously mostly affecting empty tiles (since you haven't had much time to build up yet) is pretty good.
They're all avoidable except for edge cases of storms that cross a biome boundary. Although floods drop so much fertility the boosts to tiles usually outweigh having a farm or mine in the first place. As an aside, volcanic soil allows some odd placement - any volcanic soil can hold a farm, mine, terrace, etc, regardless of hills, snow, etc or your tech level. (Very handy!)
How will I peddle trinkets in my trade posts with all this sand?!
Well, civ6 cities can grow much faster than civ5 cities ever could. I can put up a city in the industrial and have it size 20 before the game ends. In civ5 you basically knew that after a certain era you would never get any new city above a certain size. The utility of military engineers to rush out infrastructure that usually must be hardbuilt, and reyna/moksha being able to buy, closes a lot of the gap in development. Getting a city to size 10 fast is a matter of a few farms under replaceable parts. But if you don't use the governors then building districts, even in otherwise productive new cities, is a total chore. It might be better in the future to have a scaling district piece based on the number of specialty districts in that city already, and compound that with the game time scaling, so that new cities can still get on their feet quick. And it's not like you can't develop new cities in the late game; it is just extremely demoralizing to see a 120 turn build time on an aqueduct so we don't like doing it.
They're all avoidable except for edge cases of storms that cross a biome boundary. Although floods drop so much fertility the boosts to tiles usually outweigh having a farm or mine in the first place. As an aside, volcanic soil allows some odd placement - any volcanic soil can hold a farm, mine, terrace, etc, regardless of hills, snow, etc or your tech level. (Very handy!)
In my experience, the game has a tendency to select a few specific spots in the world deserts for dust storms. The problem is that this means if you play a civ like Mali that is extremely desert centric, then you may have nary a mote blow into your bazaar. Or you might get pounded by chain Haboobs continuously. It's a distinctly late game issue because the frequency of storms gets cranked up with CO2 levels and if you own and have developed (usually running something like desert folkore, so it's a bunch of HS/Sugubas) the doomed desert, it's just awful. I have had swaths of 4-5 cities get hit by a haboob, and then before the first one is done, another haboob forms in the same desert. It's maddening. I should have taken screenshots; the entire screen is burned out districts and sand encrusted mines. Even on disaster setting 4 it's completely out of character with the other disasters.
How will I peddle trinkets in my trade posts with all this sand?!
Well, civ6 cities can grow much faster than civ5 cities ever could. I can put up a city in the industrial and have it size 20 before the game ends. In civ5 you basically knew that after a certain era you would never get any new city above a certain size. The utility of military engineers to rush out infrastructure that usually must be hardbuilt, and reyna/moksha being able to buy, closes a lot of the gap in development. Getting a city to size 10 fast is a matter of a few farms under replaceable parts. But if you don't use the governors then building districts, even in otherwise productive new cities, is a total chore. It might be better in the future to have a scaling district piece based on the number of specialty districts in that city already, and compound that with the game time scaling, so that new cities can still get on their feet quick. And it's not like you can't develop new cities in the late game; it is just extremely demoralizing to see a 120 turn build time on an aqueduct so we don't like doing it.
Yeah, it's just a problem when your starting location makes it infeasible to do anything but settle the floodplain. Damage to improvements aside, there's still the population hit.
Good catch.
Seems to be plenty of threads where folks lament that population is fairly meaningless. I settle a city to grab a late-game resource, build a park, or do something else I wouldn't bother doing earlier.
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