Early game strategy? / Getting a good start

[Micky Onimusha]

I just picked up BTS, so I'm making the shift from Vanilla 0.23 to the up-to-date one. I'm feeling a bit newbish asking for help, but don't ask don't learn and all that =/

I wanted to ask what most people's early game strategies are? I'm just finding it difficult to get off to a "flying start". Unsure of what way to go with my tech prioritisation, where to plop my first settler, how soon to pump out a worker and so forth.

I know this all varies a bit on "What's around you when you start" and what Civ you choose, but I figured I'd ask to get kind of a general idea. Sometimes I find myself tempted to rush for Mysticism for God King and other times Animal Husb for capturing animals. I'm never sure what priority to give to Hunting too, or to exploring dungeons and lairs. Of course, almost all of the early techs are important, so I get a bit sticky on how to go about it.

For the sake of example, the perspective of Keelyn (since she's my favourite flavour wise) on Continents would be best. In particularly, where to plop down my first settler and how many turns to spend "looking for a good spot" would be useful to know. I know Forest-Plains-Hills are good to look out for, as well as any resources that give a nice innate benefit, but just a general idea of what I should really be going for would help.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

don't feel newbish, people here are friendly

 

[Micky Onimusha]

don't feel newbish, people here are friendly

I know It's just a natural instinct, heh.

 

[BillSeurer]

I'd just play a few times and make lots of mistakes. Then come here and read some interesting threads and go try a few things. That's what I have been doing.

I look back now and realize exactly why my first few games went so badly.

 

[BugReportage]

Varn Gosam to Infernals

No one beats Varn to founding a religion when he's on his flood plains.

Where to settle:

Spoiler :

TRY TO FIND AN OASIS NEAR FLOOD PLAINS TO SETTLE BY.
I emphasize this because if you can get a city by an oasis but 2 spaces away from a river with flood plains you've hit gold. You get a fresh water bonus from the oasis AND the food bonus of the flood plains without compromising your city health. If this is impossible you must settle by fresh water no matter what anyways so try to make it so only 1 flood plain is directly beside your city (such as settling at the end of a river with some hills beside your city and 1 or 2 flood plains adjacent.) If you don't spawn in a desert (or one with no flood plains) this strategy is going to be a lot slower and it will be tedious. (flavourmod 2.0 <3) OH and you will NEED at least 3-4 floodplains in your fat cross. Do this and you're flying!

What to research:

Spoiler :

Go straight for Mysticism, then once that's complete go for education. Then go for Knowledge of the Ether, then just click right on Infernal Pact.

What to build:

Spoiler :

You want a warrior first, if it isn't done by the time you research agriculture and you have a city pop of 4 or higher pause it and build a worker then resume when the worker is done otherwise continue with the warrior.
When the worker is built (hopefully just before or just after you've researched education) spam cottages on all your flood plains. Screw farms you want cottages. *Note: Do not work an Oasis if there's a floodplain with a cottage... Cottages grow, Oasis's don't*
Next, after your worker and when you've completed a warrior start building an Elder Council and when that's done just build more warriors but be careful because you're in pacifism and you can't maintain and army yet just hold on. Switch it to a settler when your 4th military unit is 1 turn away from completion.

Civics:

Spoiler :

You want God King and Pacifism, anarchy is no problem because you don't have anarchy!
It's up to you if you want apprenticeship.
Same for Slavery.
You definitely want Ashen Veil.
When you've made 1 great sage, switch from pacifism to nationhood.

Great People and Specialists:

Spoiler :

In my strategy you get 1, a great sage. Build an academy.
After that switch your civic to nationhood as I said in the civics spoiler.
You don't want a specialist after you pop the sage, I find it's better to now concentrate on the meager hammers you are producing or to put him on another cottage. Why not work on a second great sage? 2 Reasons: Barbs will kill you if you don't get out of pacifism. AND If you think you're smart and switch out of pacifism and still keep him a sage, you're going to be 10 turns away from completing infernal pact by the time you get another... You'd have completed the pact already if you had put him on a cottage...

When you get your great sage and switch to nationhood I will also add that you want to start spamming warriors, those barbs will be coming if they haven't already.

And another thing. If you say "building a settler takes 77 turns", you're right, this strategy doesn't need hammers, and you should be alright up to spamming warriors if you keep all the units you have on top of your city.

If barbs are advancing on you, your warriors can move 2 spaces on desert and get a 90%+ chance of winning by default on desert on the offensive. So play an active defense. Defending your city is a must, never leave it open, never risk it. So far I haven't had problems with barbs if I keep 2 warriors on my city.

Oh and about lairs. Don't pop them. I know they can spawn good things but if something bad comes out, 2 warriors might not be enough. If you want to risk it then go ahead, I do sometimes.

I play on Monarch usually, sometimes Emperor.
You should get to Infernal Pact from turn 110 to turn 150 (at most).

The purpose of this strategy is simple: To get Hyborem and champions by the time people are just learning how to use axes.

 

[Micky Onimusha]

Varn Gosam to Infernals

No one beats Varn to founding a religion when he's on his flood plains.

Where to settle:

Spoiler :

TRY TO FIND AN OASIS NEAR FLOOD PLAINS TO SETTLE BY.
I emphasize this because if you can get a city by an oasis but 2 spaces away from a river with flood plains you've hit gold. You get a fresh water bonus from the oasis AND the food bonus of the flood plains without compromising your city health. If this is impossible you must settle by fresh water no matter what anyways so try to make it so only 1 flood plain is directly beside your city (such as settling at the end of a river with some hills beside your city and 1 or 2 flood plains adjacent.) If you don't spawn in a desert (or one with no flood plains) this strategy is going to be a lot slower and it will be tedious. (flavourmod 2.0 <3) OH and you will NEED at least 3-4 floodplains in your fat cross. Do this and you're flying!

What to research:

Spoiler :

Go straight for Mysticism, then once that's complete go for education. Then go for Knowledge of the Ether, then just click right on Infernal Pact.

What to build:

Spoiler :

You want a warrior first, if it isn't done by the time you research agriculture and you have a city pop of 4 or higher pause it and build a worker then resume when the worker is done otherwise continue with the warrior.
When the worker is built (hopefully just before or just after you've researched education) spam cottages on all your flood plains. Screw farms you want cottages. *Note: Do not work an Oasis if there's a floodplain with a cottage... Cottages grow, Oasis's don't*
Next, after your worker and when you've completed a warrior start building an Elder Council and when that's done just build more warriors but be careful because you're in pacifism and you can't maintain and army yet just hold on. Switch it to a settler when your 4th military unit is 1 turn away from completion.

Civics:

Spoiler :

You want God King and Pacifism, anarchy is no problem because you don't have anarchy!
It's up to you if you want apprenticeship.
Same for Slavery.
You definitely want Ashen Veil.
When you've made 1 great sage, switch from pacifism to nationhood.

Great People and Specialists:

Spoiler :

In my strategy you get 1, a great sage. Build an academy.
After that switch your civic to nationhood as I said in the civics spoiler.
You don't want a specialist after you pop the sage, I find it's better to now concentrate on the meager hammers you are producing or to put him on another cottage. Why not work on a second great sage? 2 Reasons: Barbs will kill you if you don't get out of pacifism. AND If you think you're smart and switch out of pacifism and still keep him a sage, you're going to be 10 turns away from completing infernal pact by the time you get another... You'd have completed the pact already if you had put him on a cottage...

When you get your great sage and switch to nationhood I will also add that you want to start spamming warriors, those barbs will be coming if they haven't already.

And another thing. If you say "building a settler takes 77 turns", you're right, this strategy doesn't need hammers, and you should be alright up to spamming warriors if you keep all the units you have on top of your city.

If barbs are advancing on you, your warriors can move 2 spaces on desert and get a 90%+ chance of winning by default on desert on the offensive. So play an active defense. Defending your city is a must, never leave it open, never risk it. So far I haven't had problems with barbs if I keep 2 warriors on my city.

Oh and about lairs. Don't pop them. I know they can spawn good things but if something bad comes out, 2 warriors might not be enough. If you want to risk it then go ahead, I do sometimes.

I play on Monarch usually, sometimes Emperor.
You should get to Infernal Pact from turn 110 to turn 150 (at most).

The purpose of this strategy is simple: To get Hyborem and champions by the time people are just learning how to use axes.

Although a lot of it doesn't appeal to my traditional gaming (although some day I might try Hyborem), that Mysticism > Pacifism+Elder Council strategy seems quite ideal. I've just realised that one of things I've been overlooking since picking up this new one that I almost completely forgot about nabbing an early Great Sage. Something I'm going to have to aim for on my next start (I think I've ran through about 20+ "starts" since grabbing BTS-FFH just because I don't find myself "happy" with how things turn out).

Edit: Also, a quick question. What makes the Frostligns show up? Most games they never appear (at least near me) but I've noticed a couple where a mass horde of them will appear and raid me. I don't object to it, just would like to know what causes them so I can prepare for it.

Edit: I actually gave the Malak > Infernal game a go. Quickest one I played, although I lost, heh. By wiping out everyone but the Malak, I accidently granted them a religious victory. Which is a shame, since I was going to wipe them out next. Note to self, if I do that again, take out my summoner first.

 

[BugReportage]

Illians might have used Samhaim ritual or whatcha call it. It happens pretty early on.

 

[Micky Onimusha]

Illians might have used Samhaim ritual or whatcha call it. It happens pretty early on.

Ah kay, that makes sense. I just looked it up. Sounds like the one.

 

[Zechnophobe]

Malakim, sadly, don't always start near flood plain. So if you really want to pump out Hyborem, I'd suggest the Lanun, since Ocean is far more common than flood plain.

 

[EmptyWolf]

Malakim, sadly, don't always start near flood plain. So if you really want to pump out Hyborem, I'd suggest the Lanun, since Ocean is far more common than flood plain.

Unless you are unfortunate enough to suffer from the infamous land-locked Lanun start, so that's not a guaranteed plan either.

 

[BugReportage]

With flavourstart I haven't ever had a scenario without flood plains, and the times I don't I got something even better, forests AND deserts together.
(Because flavourstart changes the tiles around your beginning settler to suit the civ, so you could have a desert in a forest)
Besides unflavoury starts are so boo!

 

[Zechnophobe]

Unless you are unfortunate enough to suffer from the infamous land-locked Lanun start, so that's not a guaranteed plan either.

That's comparatively rare. Very rare.

 

[Zechnophobe]

With flavourstart I haven't ever had a scenario without flood plains, and the times I don't I got something even better, forests AND deserts together.
(Because flavourstart changes the tiles around your beginning settler to suit the civ, so you could have a desert in a forest)
Besides unflavoury starts are so boo!

No wonder you like the malakim so much, flood plain is generally the best possible start, since it produces both a lot of food and guaranteed trade. Do the doviello get stuck in tundra? What about the bannor, they just get screwed.

If you give advice assuming some mod or script like this, mention it so the guy knows the normal game doesn't work like this.

 

[EverNoob]

For the sake of example, the perspective of Keelyn (since she's my favourite flavour wise) on Continents would be best. In particularly, where to plop down my first settler and how many turns to spend "looking for a good spot" would be useful to know. I know Forest-Plains-Hills are good to look out for, as well as any resources that give a nice innate benefit, but just a general idea of what I should really be going for would help.

Food, production, and commerce in the very first turns are crucial. Because of the long research times compared to vanilla, easly commerce is crucial. Even a tiny (+1/+2) boost helps alot.

Food - Since Keelyn starts with Agriculture, is pretty much covered right off the bat.

Production - Animal Husbandry is researcheable available to Keelyn, therefore Cows are an excellent option for . In addition to the usual forests.

Commerce - Calendar is immediatly researcheable too, therefore most calendar resources can provide early . Or you could farm along a river and head for Education, since Education is only 2 techs away (as opposed to 3 techs away for many civs).

Happiness - If a resource is covered by jungle, don't be afraid to settle a city on top of it. Immediate access to is often more beneficial than waiting for Sanitation.

You can usually find a good spot for your 1st settler by turn 3, end your settler movements on hills for better vision. I wouldn't wait past turn 5, but maybe that's just me.

 

[EmptyWolf]

No wonder you like the malakim so much, flood plain is generally the best possible start, since it produces both a lot of food and guaranteed trade. Do the doviello get stuck in tundra? What about the bannor, they just get screwed.

If you give advice assuming some mod or script like this, mention it so the guy knows the normal game doesn't work like this.

Actually the Doviello are scripted to have Tundra starts...which really sucks for them. And the Khazad had pure hill starts (a.k.a. no food) in the versions I remember.

 

[slowcar]

most important for me is the economy, together with production.
depending on my surroundings the following techs are my targets:
agriculture
mining
festivals
(cartography) (only after rushing a neighbour)
education
ancient chants

i usually start building a worker (except the rare cases there is nothing to do), keep my warrior nearby (maybe on a wooden hill) and explore with my scout.
after that i usually build warriors and train them on barbs until i can rush my neighbour.
a lot of cities with city states, markets and elder councils go a long way. don't be afraid of loosing a lot of warriors, just focus on keeping a few high promoted alive. target here is to get shock2+march warriors, they can usually destroy a few civs alone, depending on difficulty (i usually play deity, sometimes immortal).

 

[Micky Onimusha]

Thanks for the advice. A quick question on heavily forested areas (since I have a bad/unlucky habit of finding myself locked in by forests a lot), should I just steer clear of them? I'm guessing what I'd be aiming for is one or two hill-plains-forests, a river with some grass/floodplains and ideally some resources that can be worked asap.

 

[EverNoob]

Keelyn should move away form heavy forests, since it chokes commerce at the beginning. Only civs that start with Ancient Chants or the elves can do well with a heavy forest start.

 

[Micky Onimusha]

Keelyn should move away form heavy forests, since it chokes commerce at the beginning. Only civs that start with Ancient Chants or the elves can do well with a heavy forest start.

How comes ones with AC can do well around forests?

Also, finally managed to get myself off to a start I was happy with, albeit without my beloved Keelyn. Went with Dain and the Amurites, but having a fun, albeit peaceful game. Probably too buildery for me to learn a lot from but it's nice to be playing beyond the first few hundred turns before throwing my toys out of the pram.

Also, Somnium is a really addictive mini-game

 

[EverNoob]

There's 2 general ways to get started in a game:

1 - using a worker to improve tiles

or

2 - adopt god-king and build elder councils

Civs starting with Ancient Chants can research Mysticism in a reasonable amount of time. That lets them use the god king civic and elder councils to get started. With the extra from god king, you can pop out a settler without needing a worker to improve tiles. In such a case, the elder councils compensates for the lack of from forest, while at the same time taking advantage of the extra from forests.