Early Research

iamnleth

Warlord
Joined
Dec 25, 2005
Messages
275
Location
United States
on Prince level, after the discover of alphabet, I find myself having to research expensive techs just to trade them for old techs. Why does this happen? I see no reason why I would be falling behind in research, I have as many cities (or more) when compared to the AI... are they trading more/faster than I am? Could this be the problem? Is my Research percentage too low (in the early game, ranges from 60% to 80%)?
 
Not that I want to encourage Wonder-addiction or anything, but do you pursue The Great Library or use The Oracle for a slingshot?

Are you 'lightbulbing' your Great People at all towards technologies that you can create multiple trades from?

Are your citizens working the wrong tiles?

It's not necessarily bad to trade an expensive technology to several tribes for a net gain.

There are lots of variables that might be leading you to this point - perhaps posting a saved game might make your predicament clearer for others?
 
Playing now at Prince as well, I often ignore a (relatively) large number of early techs, only going for ones I need. When I get Alphabet, I'm in contact with many enough AI civs that I can immediatelly look for trades. I probably am tech leader now and should have something to trade around if I want to. If not now, at least soon the AI will have nice techs available on branches I haven't traversed, so I (hopefully) can get them and fill the trade with some older techs (both ways).
When I get Alphabet, I'll first check if there are some techs I would be interested in, but will probably trade more fillers when I've got Currency as well, allowing for balancing with coin as well.

Also at this point it's getting important to think about alliances. Early religions have been founded, and most AI civs have converted to something or other. Those who don't have their own religions to spread around are probably shaky though, easy to convert with just a few missionaries. However, the religious blocks are now starting to form, and religion is a big issue in the alliances. So, look at the groups that are forming, think about which you do or do not want to please, and plan your trading partners accordingly. It's just fine to make a "Fair" (as in, AI benefits a lot) trade for some diplo bonus when trying to align yourself in the groups, and it's better to avoid trading with worst enemies of those you want to befriend.

With that in mind, I probably end up paying more than I'd think of as fair, to get the trades going in the group I've chosen as "friends".

Still, not all techs are traded by AI, at least not soon. Some leaders are willing to trade their cutting edge techs (for your cutting edge techs mind you, not some old throw-ins) while others keep them for quite long. The diplo factors weigh in heavily too, so even the same leader, given same tech balance, will react differently based on how you've aligned yourself. And sometimes the AIs manage to do a decent amount of tech trading amongst themselves, surprisingly focusing on different branches of the tree. In those cases you just have to keep checking the tech situation every turn to have a chance to cut in fast and taking the middleman cut from new techs your friends have researched. Pay a lot for a good tech if you can then trade that to some others getting back on your investment - diplo bonuses for fair trading with several civs and a number of reasonable techs for one very unbalanced initial trade.

Other choices? Don't trade. Research yourself. Be a man. Be Tokugawa :)
Researching everything yourself instead of trading techs isn't impossible by any means. It does slow the overall teching speed though, as human players often go for different techs than the AI allowing for trading at the cutting edge. Not trading doesn't mean that only you will be teching slower, the AI civs will also have to research techs you'd usually have available for trading with them, slowing their teching rate as well. They might go on for quite a while without those techs, but eventually they'll have to research them. Mostly techs aggressively researched by human players can't really be ignored for very long by the AI either.
 
Cam_H said:
Not that I want to encourage Wonder-addiction or anything, but do you pursue The Great Library or use The Oracle for a slingshot?

Are you 'lightbulbing' your Great People at all towards technologies that you can create multiple trades from?

Are your citizens working the wrong tiles?

It's not necessarily bad to trade an expensive technology to several tribes for a net gain.

There are lots of variables that might be leading you to this point - perhaps posting a saved game might make your predicament clearer for others?

I always construct Stonehenge (mainly for GP points, to obtain a great prophet to be used in holy city to construct the shrine) and the Oracle, which I use to slingshot to Code of Laws or Theology. I usually use any further gold-making great people as a city specialist to make the holy city my supreme gold-making city (this could be the problem). I also always try for the Great Library and The Hanging Gardens, but rarely make it. Lastly, my citizens are working automated tiles. I usually have the city governor set to research in my capital, commerce in my holy city, and production in cities that are lacking production. The rest of my cities are usually obtaining production naturally and I usually don't set them to emphasize production so they will grow faster.

Also, it is highly possible that I may be falling behind because I do not trade techs with the AI as soon as alphabet is researched (or I don't research it fast enough).

EDIT: By the way, thanks for the help everyone.
 
I assume that the AI won't trade anything I really want and will only want stuff I don't want to trade so I just assume that I have to research anything I want myself.
 
to get good trades you need
- alphabet obviously
- something to trade (alphabet is a good trading tech in itself, but it leads to litterature, and if you have a monopoly on alphabet you can trade "your way")
- trading partners = civs with which you are not at war. You get better trades if you have better relations. If you want to make a good deal, you need at least 2/3 trade partners.

If you don't have good relations (= wrong religion in the early game), you will have a hard time trading for anything.
My personnal philosophy on trade is very open:
I'd trade for every tech (unless monopoly AND specific advantage, like a great wonder I want to build or dominant military tech I plan to use ;)) even for lower techs, just to prevent the AIs to deal among themselves.
 
Back
Top Bottom