Egypt - 2 Queries

[martyb36]

Long time reader first time poster.

I always have a soft spot in games for the first Civ/character/class etc that I choose, which in this case happens to be Egypt.

I find playing as Cleopatra quite balanced but I have two issues I could do with some help with. In case it helps I play for any of the victory conditions apart from religious, and my preference is Culture Victory.

1. Maryannu Chariot Archer
I play on immortal or Deity most games and I can't for the life of me get these Maryannu Chariot Archers to click.
They cost almost 3 times as many hammers as the archer and cannot be upgraded from slingers, so aren't as effective for the slinger ----> archer rush which seems optimal/absolutely necessary for the higher difficulties. In fact I'd say on Deity its that much slower than the Slinger/Archer rush that its not a feasible unit to use.
I did get a bit excited when I saw Agoge works with the chariots but it was still too slow.

Also they replace the Heavy Chariot which can be good for upgrading into Knights early for a Knights and Ram attack.

In summary, they are 'weaker' than the archer due to hammer cost and no upgrade from slinger route and they block knight production. For me this makes them a hindrance, however maybe you guys know something I don't, I'd love to sweep across the battlefield with an army of these but it just never happens. Any ideas?

2. Sphinx
Does anyone ever build these instead of mines or other production based tile improvements? I'm unsure as to whether these are a better option in the early game compared to the standard mine (before apprenticeship). Little bit of a culture boost and some less handy faith (don't play religious victories).
I find I only end up using these at the end of a culture victory to squeeze a very small bit of Tourism out.
Also do these improve the appeal of adjacent tiles in the same way Forests do? Could be handy for seaside resorts.

 

[Mr. Shadows]

I haven't played Egypt much so I'm not the best person to answer for the most part. The only thing I'd like to point out is that culture generally harder to come by than science. An extra +2 or +3 culture early in the game can be a big help. Using them to boost seaside resorts sounds like a good idea, but I'm not sure exactly how that works. Is the +1 appeal just for that tile, or does it extend to adjacent tiles? For the most part I find them (and most other UIs) to be under-whelming though.

 

[martyb36]

I haven't played Egypt much so I'm not the best person to answer for the most part. The only thing I'd like to point out is that culture generally harder to come by than science. An extra +2 or +3 culture early in the game can be a big help. Using them to boost seaside resorts sounds like a good idea, but I'm not sure exactly how that works. Is the +1 appeal just for that tile, or does it extend to adjacent tiles? For the most part I find them (and most other UIs) to be under-whelming though.

I find science and culture victories just as easy as each other to be honest. Science I can usually get done a little faster turn wise but I enjoy the culture game more (feel like I have more to do). Will opt for science if I get a mega hill city for that production though!

I think the early sphinxs are quite handy then switch them over too mines at a later date. Would need to do the maths though.

Playing a game with Egypt at the moment on immortal and steam rolled Japan with 4 Maryannus and 2 Warriors. Seems a great unit but I just feel I'm getting my neighbour wiped out 10 turns later than if I did slinger archer rush.
Perhaps a unit to produce a couple of to supplement the initial force I rush with.

 

[EpicWestern]

OP, you're generally right with both 1 and 2.

I've used chariot archer to some success though, if you have the tech available I do think the mobility makes them better than archers, its just not something worth beelining to. I think you probably can take your second civ out in the post-archer, pre-crossbowman window.

 

[myclan]

I had played as Egypt a few times but only finished once, in that game I had not built even a Maryannu Chariot Archer or a Sphinx. But in rethinking the game now I feel quite regret about it. Here is what I think about Egypt.

Egypt is more suitable for a cultural victory or a conquest victory.

I regard Gold as another form of production, and in the early stage of the game the most effective way to use goid is to buy a important tile(luxury/statery resource, even a high production tile or a tile with good adjacency bonus for certain district), which is relatively cheap in the early game, or to upgrade a unit, which with prefessional army, is very cheap compared to the extra production needed for the more advanced units. But unfotunately, it is difficult to get a lot of good before Triangular trade become available if you don't meet any commercial CS. Egypt solve this problem well with Mediterranean's Bride, a born Triangular trade. So it is very easy for Egypt to fight a upgrade based rush.

Is Maryannu Chariot Archer always better than Archer? NO. The cost of Maryannu Chariot Archer is almost 3*Archer, but the damage it can produce is only 1.4*Archer.
Is Archer always better than Maryannu Chariot Archer? NO. 2 archer is stronger than 1 Maryannu Chariot Archer only if you have two available position to shoot.
So if you are fighting a static/defensive war with few obstacles, archer is better for you can just stand and shoot from everywhere. But if you are fighting a moving/offencing war and there happens to be rich of forest/hill, you need Maryannu Chariot Archer to combine with your archer. But because they are really expensive to build. I think the prerequisite of it is Military Tradition instead of Wheel. So try to clear a Barbarian oupost asap! Research Bronze Working/Masonry and use your worker to chop/harvest also help.

Production is always important, so I think I will seldom build a Sphinx on a hill. Instead, I think building them on a plains, especially flood plains maybe a good idea. Food is also important, but there are two periods that don't. One is when growth is limited by housing. If you don't have so much mine/lumber mills to work, work a Sphinx instead of a farm/specialist. Another is when you have replaceable parts/collectivization, you need much less farm and just change them to Sphinx. Sphinx is a good altenative way to boost your culture as well as your tourims after flight.

Iteru is also strong, just build your wonder beside a river and you enjoy a free policy! It is also good for culture victory because you want a lot of Theater District early to prevent others from getting GW/GA/GM, and +15% really help a lot. Sphinx also help you to get Diving Sparks earlier.

 

[martyb36]

@myclan The Maryannu archers actually get production boost with Agoge as they count as ranged not cavalry.

I feel happy with the Civ as a whole (it's no Germany, Australia etc) love Iteru and meds bride is handy too. Don't have any problems with winning as them. Was just hoping to use their UU and UI a bit more and wanted to see if anyone had suggestions.

I started another game on deity and I think the best way to use the Maryannu is to build them after the initial attack force of 2 warriors and 4/5 archers and send them in to help out. They are very powerful, just too expensive to rush for, best waiting until that first attack force is built and your city has more production to build a few.

 

[myclan]

@myclan The Maryannu archers actually get production boost with Agoge as they count as ranged not cavalry.

I feel happy with the Civ as a whole (it's no Germany, Australia etc) love Iteru and meds bride is handy too. Don't have any problems with winning as them. Was just hoping to use their UU and UI a bit more and wanted to see if anyone had suggestions.

I started another game on deity and I think the best way to use the Maryannu is to build them after the initial attack force of 2 warriors and 4/5 archers and send them in to help out. They are very powerful, just too expensive to rush for, best waiting until that first attack force is built and your city has more production to build a few.

Yes, they are aimed for supporting your archers instead of replacing them.