Technically you can have Babylon and sacrifice 1 hill spot in view for Ninua top right, which only gives some hammers anyway and have more core pop, as Ninua can claim easily another 10-12 pop or so, reaching deer and a farm and a bunch of plains, this way you have a secondary mass production city with all those hills. The to sacrifice 1 food for an extra core city pretty much.
Egypt/Babylonia Space Victory Suggestions？
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banzay13
Prince
Sudenly i found my empire at huge recession, and Persian cites flip off from me. More over, hordes of barbarian cames from Europe, and i dont have a irone. But now surely get Islam in right place))
and now empire collapsing
and now empire collapsing
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Well only 1 city as core and many of your cities are nonhistorical, besides Jerusalem and Tyrus. Again putting 1 city on the lumber camp in top right is a free extra core city for 1 spot of Babylon and cost zero extra pop, cause it is 0 pop square.
Though +1 collapsing is weird, generally you need a -10 or -15, depends maybe on your difficulty suppose, assume you play on most difficult, cause if it is monarch this is weird. In the middle ages, you need a mix that often can give a domestic like +15 or 17. Monarchy, vassalage, manorialism, clergy/mon, reg trade, tributaries, so helps getting a great statesman.
Also wrecking shush early is a must, you can't have it fall to the Persians, cause it limits Babylon and Ninua.
Though +1 collapsing is weird, generally you need a -10 or -15, depends maybe on your difficulty suppose, assume you play on most difficult, cause if it is monarch this is weird. In the middle ages, you need a mix that often can give a domestic like +15 or 17. Monarchy, vassalage, manorialism, clergy/mon, reg trade, tributaries, so helps getting a great statesman.
Also wrecking shush early is a must, you can't have it fall to the Persians, cause it limits Babylon and Ninua.
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banzay13
Prince
I lost 4 city (3 to Persia, and i withdraw all my forces from Samarkand, to defend from barbarians.. So after Turic spaw i agree to flip) Allthout i build Artxata, i got colapsed to capital, due territory loss (i got such message)
Persia respanw, then i was unstable, due recession. I was stable, before recession. And have non expansion problem. Probably i reload, but i played a while, to look what happen next. Its very difficult, to start from 1 city again. Alghout i regain some cites
Anyway, i still think Egypt much more for space race, Babylon production cost insane
Well Core is key in everything mostly, so an extra city top right, as a free 6-7 pop. Again Shush ruins you (so early if you can raze it is good), as it always flips to Persia, so it is smart to wreck it early on, I am not sure if it spawns when you overlaps your city culture on it, for example Danniba used to be able to be prevented if you build Mayan city 1NW and it overlapped. As Babylon it is pretty much a waste heading East, unless you defeat Persia, if Persia exists you always screwed. Also Tyrus you got to take, as again the Phoenicians just limit you. Babylon you got to make sure 2 cities in core (works even with Bayblon and then an extra city in the caucasus near the passage north to Russia, then Jerusalem and one city to the most top left next to the hill 2 steps above Tyrus. You might actually have to raze tyrus, which hurts but again cities pushing in your core is always bad.
I wonder if you building Babylon 1 SE, the palace culture makes sure Sush never spawns, cause you hit the Sush spot with your culture.
Though you got to build Babylon right? Just like France always needs Paris cause it is city dictated? I hate that cause sometimes Rome builds a city 1 spot away from Paris and it not named Paris then.
I wonder if you building Babylon 1 SE, the palace culture makes sure Sush never spawns, cause you hit the Sush spot with your culture.
Though you got to build Babylon right? Just like France always needs Paris cause it is city dictated? I hate that cause sometimes Rome builds a city 1 spot away from Paris and it not named Paris then.
Just an idea
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2016
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Having only single Core city has your Core population count as double for expansion stability from Classical era onward so extra core cities should have total population at least equal to Babylon to actually be helpful for stability purposes.
Shush spawns too early to be realistically culture killed but with enough culture output from Babylon there is good chance to flip it before Persia spawns. If it flips, the city should just be disbanded.
Losing more than half of your cities can trigger collapse to core. That can force stability level to collapsing regardless of actual stability score.
Shush spawns too early to be realistically culture killed but with enough culture output from Babylon there is good chance to flip it before Persia spawns. If it flips, the city should just be disbanded.
Losing more than half of your cities can trigger collapse to core. That can force stability level to collapsing regardless of actual stability score.
Didn't know about the double core stability of one city, then yeah it makes sense. You can build a city contested/historical on the wine and get 2 farms in Turkey, 
I think with Babylon you kinda stuck at 3-4 cities, at most, the small ones flip or get taken anyway. Key is beating the Persians, though guess in his case they never started a war? Else'd I'd assume he'd taken Shush. In all honesty the earlier you can wreck Shush the better, cause they just annoy you as a Persian Flip. I seen run through shush flips sometimes with 6 archers for example.
Does Babylon flip to the Arabs when they pop up or are capitols exempt from flipping?
I think with Babylon you kinda stuck at 3-4 cities, at most, the small ones flip or get taken anyway. Key is beating the Persians, though guess in his case they never started a war? Else'd I'd assume he'd taken Shush. In all honesty the earlier you can wreck Shush the better, cause they just annoy you as a Persian Flip. I seen run through shush flips sometimes with 6 archers for example.Does Babylon flip to the Arabs when they pop up or are capitols exempt from flipping?
Just an idea
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2016
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- 97
Based on vast testing data of a game, Babylon doesn't flip to Arabia. It is part of both the Arabian flipzone and Core, so I don't quite know why it doesn't flip.
To not lose cities to rebirths its better to prevent rebirth entirely. Unless conditions for rebirth have changed with new slot system, controlling civ's entire Core while having positive stability prevents them from respawning.
To not lose cities to rebirths its better to prevent rebirth entirely. Unless conditions for rebirth have changed with new slot system, controlling civ's entire Core while having positive stability prevents them from respawning.
Babylon flips when it is Byzantine or Persian, but suppose your capitol in your own core flipping would be very strange. There is a new rebirth system (the nightly) now that means cities always flip and you can decide to conquer them back (i think they get some troops) or not. Also this new system makes your troops not switch anymore but they get their own, so no more your army is lost cause
It has some bugs though, as it is very new. With culture staying neutral, troops going missing but it is a better more fair system, as you can't suddenly take an entire 12 units an enemy had cause it flipped.
It has some bugs though, as it is very new. With culture staying neutral, troops going missing but it is a better more fair system, as you can't suddenly take an entire 12 units an enemy had cause it flipped.
banzay13
Prince
Funny, i captured only Boston, and USA have all territory under their control, but ready to capitulate. Well, what can i say. They should"t attack my vassal Canada... After 5 turns my aviation did the job. W/o oil and coal you cant win))
So... Space victory deffently possible. Regent/Epic
Currently my expansion -4(199/181), a litle bit overexpanssion. Overall stability +34 (mostly good relation)
Ooh, i got inflation event few turns ago (~20) and now have +200 gold with 100% research. Before i run 80/90%.
So... Space victory deffently possible. Regent/Epic
Currently my expansion -4(199/181), a litle bit overexpanssion. Overall stability +34 (mostly good relation)
Ooh, i got inflation event few turns ago (~20) and now have +200 gold with 100% research. Before i run 80/90%.
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banzay13
Prince
Well, look like it also possible to win space race with Egypt. I setled fist city 2S from starting point - so it in historical area, the second city - Eskendereyya (Ra-Kadet). Only one core city - boost you expansion. You must go for Constantinopol (war with Turkish is hard, and war with ERE also not easy. It took about 1000 years ^^, to take and raze small Castle near Sur). Now i go for Mandle sites. Goa and Dejene with Towns around them - good spots. A little bit late, but i was busy with Russia/Iran krai war. Also i razed a lot of cites. In Ethiopia (only Roha left and i setled Mogadisho), and around Babylon. Also, i think, Sur must be razed too (i didn't). And of coz, start steal tech from Europe as soon as you can
UPD: with one core city you can control in ancient - only Egypt, in classical - all historical+Babylon, in medieval - +Turkey+Greece, in rennesanse + Italy+Arabia (but with pop limit), industrial - no limit for population, in Global + Iran or Mali, in Digital - all this area w/o population limint almost. This work in 1.6.0 fine, in 1.6.7 need to fine out how to deal with Arabia spawn, they will take all your cites, exept capital in core area (don't foget to move palace in Ra-Kadet)
UPD2: in 1.6.8 where an message asking for reconquer flepped cites. So let's the War begin!
UPD: with one core city you can control in ancient - only Egypt, in classical - all historical+Babylon, in medieval - +Turkey+Greece, in rennesanse + Italy+Arabia (but with pop limit), industrial - no limit for population, in Global + Iran or Mali, in Digital - all this area w/o population limint almost. This work in 1.6.0 fine, in 1.6.7 need to fine out how to deal with Arabia spawn, they will take all your cites, exept capital in core area (don't foget to move palace in Ra-Kadet)
UPD2: in 1.6.8 where an message asking for reconquer flepped cites. So let's the War begin!
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banzay13
Prince
Well, with lates update Babylon game became more comlex.
All this new natition will flip cites, and recieve additional army, if you refuse to flip... and its a problem, really
So it's only way to take Persia as soon, as you can. I took it while Greece spawn their armys and razed Isfahan. But then i was "shaky" Persia uprise, and i colllapsed to Core)). I recoquer them quickly, but ERE arrive, so the way to Anatolia was closed and then arabs come with war... Okey, they not a big problem, but then came Turks, and its take time to deal with them too... Then Arabia will lose Egypt (with only one core city - 100% they do), Mamluk Sultanate will spawn with dozen of swordmens and etc... So wonderfull Egypt lands will be closed for you for a while. And then will come Mongols, then Ottomans... And they all probably declare war to you. Allthoug Mongols want recieve additional scripted army, but they came bring armys from China)). And finaly Iran. So expansion became much harder in 1.17
And i notice, then i raze three side in a row - someone will declare war to you. Thats happen 2 or 3 time. And finaly - i got crusade event from Catholic nation TWICE. The first time ever i played DoC. That was very fun game and i was short for 20-25 turns to Space Race Victory (approximately).
Look like in 1.17 you need play more warmonger style and build very big army (with 1,4 modifier unit build cost - it's not very easy)
all this tales for monarch/epic game
UPD. Warmonger goes much better. Wipe out arabian from Egypt and used GA with Mouseleum (+50% GA) for razing cites in Egypt (-22 for razing cites) befor Turic invaders. Rest of the game will be easy walk
UPD2. Weel, war with mongolia can wreak havoc to your Empire. It's not easy walk))
All this new natition will flip cites, and recieve additional army, if you refuse to flip... and its a problem, really
So it's only way to take Persia as soon, as you can. I took it while Greece spawn their armys and razed Isfahan. But then i was "shaky" Persia uprise, and i colllapsed to Core)). I recoquer them quickly, but ERE arrive, so the way to Anatolia was closed and then arabs come with war... Okey, they not a big problem, but then came Turks, and its take time to deal with them too... Then Arabia will lose Egypt (with only one core city - 100% they do), Mamluk Sultanate will spawn with dozen of swordmens and etc... So wonderfull Egypt lands will be closed for you for a while. And then will come Mongols, then Ottomans... And they all probably declare war to you. Allthoug Mongols want recieve additional scripted army, but they came bring armys from China)). And finaly Iran. So expansion became much harder in 1.17
And i notice, then i raze three side in a row - someone will declare war to you. Thats happen 2 or 3 time. And finaly - i got crusade event from Catholic nation TWICE. The first time ever i played DoC. That was very fun game and i was short for 20-25 turns to Space Race Victory (approximately).
Look like in 1.17 you need play more warmonger style and build very big army (with 1,4 modifier unit build cost - it's not very easy)
all this tales for monarch/epic game
UPD. Warmonger goes much better. Wipe out arabian from Egypt and used GA with Mouseleum (+50% GA) for razing cites in Egypt (-22 for razing cites) befor Turic invaders. Rest of the game will be easy walk
UPD2. Weel, war with mongolia can wreak havoc to your Empire. It's not easy walk))
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