Egypt review

[eireksten]

Every city of mine with the exception of 4-6 from ALL the games I've played so far have been near sea.

I can't say the same about desert. Furthermore a capital city is guaranteed 2 sea squares [sometimes 3 and I think even 4] whereas desert is not.

Therefor I conclude personally that even though the desert bonus is slightly more potent (just barely) once you can built tradeposts - overall the japanese version is much more powerful.

Well, the egyptians still get 2 research from all sea squares, while, japan gets one less food (on some tiles 2) AND one less research from the desert.

Also, the reason you've had few deserts is most likely because you haven't tried placing cities near the ones that are there (why would you when playing someone other than egypt?).

The desert bonus is way more powerful than the japanese sea tiles, seeing them tile by tile. When you take into account that there are more sea tiles, I would say that it it quite hard to differ between them. It all depends on play style, and how good you are at utilizing the bonus.

 

[homan1983]

Well, the egyptians still get 2 research from all sea squares, while, japan gets one less food (on some tiles 2) AND one less research from the desert.

Also, the reason you've had few deserts is most likely because you haven't tried placing cities near the ones that are there (why would you when playing someone other than egypt?).

The desert bonus is way more powerful than the japanese sea tiles, seeing them tile by tile. When you take into account that there are more sea tiles, I would say that it it quite hard to differ between them. It all depends on play style, and how good you are at utilizing the bonus.

Wow you've got me all figured out.

Actually I play every civ. In fact I exclusively play random and HAVE gotten Egypt many many times, and also gotten Japanese many times, along with all other civs.

I have also played Civilization since I was 9-10 years old, and been playing ever since, even buying an xbox just to play civ rev - So optimal city placement comes natural to me: but thank you for your concern regarding my egyptian city placement.

Could we say the same about you? Here's hoping

Now lets get to the issue rather than persona:

Egypt gets +2 resource bonus on desert as one of their civ bonuses.
Japan gets +1 resource on sea.

In order for egypt bonus to equal japan, for every 2 sea squares a japanese gets, an egyptian needs 1 desert.

Now we know for a fact that pre-courthouse coastal cities get 3-4 sea and post courthouse they can get 8-10. And there's no way to match that much sea area with desert area, even if you're only looknig for 1/2 the number of tiles.

Then we look at the start of game - here a sea square is exactly equal to a desert square, so for those bonuses to be of equal value, you'd need a desert tile for each sea tile of the japanese.

Also looking at resources, I'd say that coastal cities with trade in mind are much more likely and easily placed [dye, fish, whale] whereas desert is harder.


So lets sumup:

- in the short term (game start) the sea is significantly superior
- in the medium term (code of law but no navigation) sea is equal to desert assuming some desert are near you and are settled [getting desert is very luck dependent]
- in the medium-long term [pre-courthouse post-navigation] the sea bonus is much better than desert bonus
- in the long-long term [post courthouse] the sea bonus is exponentially better than the desert one


Misc situations:
- if no desert is around then the sea bonus is astronomically better than the sea bonus
- if the +1 sea trade wonder is built then the sea bonus becomes incredibly better


Finally think of it this way:
Do you find a 2nd harbor in every single city to be more valuable than a 2nd free tradepost in each of your cities.

^-- If the above doesn't convince you then I'd pretty much say you're a lost cause.

 

[eireksten]

^-- If the above doesn't convince you then I'd pretty much say you're a lost cause.

I don't know where you're getting at, I'm simply stating that the egyptian bonus is useful. I haven't said the opposite about the japanese bonus.

I play all civs as well, and I find it interesting to try and put their bonuses to as good a use as possible. For me, when discussing Egypt, stating that japan has a better bonus says nothing.

I don't understand why you seem to feel so personally attacked by me defending egypt, though.

 

[homan1983]

I don't understand why you seem to feel so personally attacked

I dunno, what u said in the quote beneath may have come across different to ow you meant it

Also, the reason you've had few deserts is most likely because you haven't tried placing cities near the ones that are there (why would you when playing someone other than egypt?).

 

[eireksten]

Egypt gets +2 resource bonus on desert as one of their civ bonuses.
Japan gets +1 resource on sea.

In order for egypt bonus to equal japan, for every 2 sea squares a japanese gets, an egyptian needs 1 desert.

Assuming that trade and food count for the same, ok. And you've still got the exception of those deserts that are next to rivers. These give an extra food with irrigation.

Now we know for a fact that pre-courthouse coastal cities get 3-4 sea and post courthouse they can get 8-10. And there's no way to match that much sea area with desert area, even if you're only looknig for 1/2 the number of tiles.

I haven't had too much problems matching 3-4 sea squares with desert. Even if this is the case, you should remember that Egypts desert give a lot of trade as opposed to Japans (bonus part of) sea squares giving food. An egyptian desert/sea city has got more potential in producing trade than a japanese one with the same population (simply because it has a trade bonus, and japan not).

Then we look at the start of game - here a sea square is exactly equal to a desert square, so for those bonuses to be of equal value, you'd need a desert tile for each sea tile of the japanese.

Also looking at resources, I'd say that coastal cities with trade in mind are much more likely and easily placed [dye, fish, whale] whereas desert is harder.

Yup, I agree that they are pretty much the same here, except for the trading post being cheaper and appearing earlier than the harbor. Also, the trading posts add 2 more trade to the deserts, letting the desert traders get bigger trade bonuses than the sea traders. As for the resources, I agree that the sea ones appear more often, but if you can find those spices (or sulfur?), that is a huge bonus. I think spices are available all the way as well.

So lets sumup:

- in the short term (game start) the sea is significantly superior
- in the medium term (code of law but no navigation) sea is equal to desert assuming some desert are near you and are settled [getting desert is very luck dependent]
- in the medium-long term [pre-courthouse post-navigation] the sea bonus is much better than desert bonus
- in the long-long term [post courthouse] the sea bonus is exponentially better than the desert one

Misc situations:
- if no desert is around then the sea bonus is astronomically better than the sea bonus
- if the +1 sea trade wonder is built then the sea bonus becomes incredibly better

I've never player a game where I couldn't find any desert, and the +1 trade wonder would give extra sea trade to egypt as well. The bonus still is +1. Its not like the egyptians wouldn't use sea at all.

Granted, the japanese bonus might be slightly better than that of egypt. Still, that doesn't mean that egypts is bad. There are other bonuses that play part, and depending on your play style, egypt might be a good choice.

And again, I've by no means said that Egypt is great or better than any of the other civs. I'm simply discussing what it's bonuses mean.

 

[eireksten]

I dunno, what u said in the quote beneath may have come across different to ow you meant it

OK, I see that one. I meant people in general, it was not a specific one for you...

I do believe that most people playing CivRev don't look for deserts when placing cities. It goes under that "useless tile" category... When you're egypt, it suddenly becomes another useful one.

 

[civoholic]

can we just talk about egypt, not the difference between japan's sea squares and egypt's desert squares

rate how good egypt is out of ten

i think japan's sea squares are better because desert tiles are harder to find

 

[eireksten]

can we just talk about egypt, not the difference between japan's sea squares and egypt's desert squares

rate how good egypt is out of ten

i think japan's sea squares are better because desert tiles are harder to find

Contradicting yourself there?

Well, I don't know, I think I'd give Egypt a 7 or something. I don't like giving ratings like that, though, it all depends on the situation.

 

[natetm]

wats a caravan?

 

[goofyballer]

Every city of mine with the exception of 4-6 from ALL the games I've played so far have been near sea.

I can't say the same about desert.

Well, yeah, obviously. I don't typically build cities near desert when I'm not using Egypt either.

I have also played Civilization since I was 9-10 years old, and been playing ever since, even buying an xbox just to play civ rev - So optimal city placement comes natural to me: but thank you for your concern regarding my egyptian city placement.

Me too!! Except for the 360 part, I've had mine for a few years. Does that make me more right?!

Your "sumup" provides no justification for your claims and is based on faulty assumptions ("desert is +2 resources for Egypt, sea is +1 resource for Japan" - they're not equal, trade > food). Please try to act objective if you want to seriously debate this.

 

[Aden52]

I think Egypt is overall a 8/10. Their bonuses aren't bad at all.

Starting the game with a free wonder is good, no matter what, even if you can't really use the wonder / it's not that amazing. Atleast you get the wonder and its bonuses, without putting work towards it. Better you get the bonuses than your enemies.

The +1 food / trade on desert regions is a great bonus, just gotta find some desert. It can be hard on some maps, but on others, there are areas that have an abundance of desert. The fact that you can work the desert squares, and get more trade/science/gold than the sea squares means you get techs faster, while still growing (albeit slowly).

The free irrigation tech is nice, although I didn't know that the bonus is not received for getting the tech. That part kinda sucks, but in the end, you get a free tech, that is great for providing growth. Growth means bigger cities. Bigger cities means more tiles worked. More tiles worked means more production/science/gold.

+1 rifleman movement has it's uses, and if you get them fast (which you most likely will, Egypt is great for science) then you can use them to quickly reinforce your front lines, or to quickly move to, and defend newly captured cities.

+50% Caravan Gold. I honestly don't build these. I only use them if I get them for free from huts. I've only played one game so far as Egypt, and have not yet played long enough to get this modern era bonus. I'm going to try building some caravan's and using them for extra boosts of gold.

In the game I have played as Egypt, all my cities have atleast 2 desert tiles. One of them has 4 or 5. I am way ahead in technology (about 9 techs), am winning in domination because I quickly boxed in, and conquered Napoleon. I am leading economically because I recently switched some of my cities from science to gold (AI is slowly starting to catch up, but at any time I can switch back to science to gain a bigger tech lead). And culturally I have no problem now, especially because I wiped out Napoleon. The bonuses to desert tiles is amazing, especially with trade posts. Also, I have 2 cities with the oil resource, and 1 with the sulfur resource. My goal is a cultural victory, as it's the last victory type I need to beat Emperor through each victory condition.

You could say that their bonuses are map dependant (whether or not you get enough desert), and dependant on what wonder you get (in my opinion any free wonder is good), but this just means they might be harder to play. Mind you, if you do start with some desert and a "good" wonder like the colossus, they are an awesome civ.

 

[GodFearingPimp]

I'd rather be Japan, as opposed to Egypt for sure.

Late in the games the 100% plus defensive bonus is insane.
The +1 food bonus on the sea is probably the most important in the game.

 

[homan1983]

Your "sumup" provides no justification for your claims and is based on faulty assumptions ("desert is +2 resources for Egypt, sea is +1 resource for Japan" - they're not equal, trade > food). Please try to act objective if you want to seriously debate this.

The value of trade vs food is a matter of opinion, it just shows how desperate you need to be to show you're right when you have to stoop to the level of saying one resource is more important than the other.

 

[goofyballer]

The value of trade vs food is a matter of opinion, it just shows how desperate you need to be to show you're right when you have to stoop to the level of saying one resource is more important than the other.

"Stoop to the level of saying one resource is more important than the other"? So can I say the same for you stooping to the level of making up completely random arguments that make no sense?

 

[homan1983]

What argument did I make that was random?

At least eireksten made some nice counter arguments, you've just come here with your sarcastic remarks and ad-hominem attack

 

[eireksten]

At least eireksten made some nice counter arguments, you've just come here with your sarcastic remarks and ad-hominem attack

Thank you for that

I'd rather be Japan, as opposed to Egypt for sure.

Late in the games the 100% plus defensive bonus is insane.
The +1 food bonus on the sea is probably the most important in the game.

I agree that the food bonus is awesome (though I still like the egyptians bonus as well, with its synergy with irrigation). The loyalty promotion of Japan (and Russia) only gives +50% defense though (which still is good).

I'm not sure I would point out the sea bonus as "the most important" in the game. There are lots of really good bonuses, and saying that one is better than the rest is quite some statement to make.

 

[homan1983]

I must say I also like the fact that irrigation synergies with the bonus.

All in all, I'd say that the overall egyptian package is nice - considering that even when their wonder turns out to be crap they get +3 culture from it.