Eleanor of England strategy tips?

[Gwelengu]

I made a post in the Eleanor topic about my general experience, but I was thinking about ruminating a bit more on Eleanor of England strategies. I've played a few failed Eleanor England games now, and I have some thoughts, but I'd also like some input from people that are better at this game than me.

So first, impressions/thoughts:

• From my experience Eleanor of England benefits more from bigger landmasses (continents). My loyalty flipping on island plates has been abysmal at best. Perhaps someone has tips that would help for island maps. It's really hard to get cities close enough to have many of them exerting pressure on another civ. The negative loyalty exertion doesn't help you hold onto nearby cities either I don't think. It's just extra negative loyalty.
• Focusing heavily on culture really backfired on me. My thought was that I could heavily rely on Sea Dogs which are unlocked in the culture tree. They also need no strategic resources! However, I found that because I did not have good infrastructure I couldn't get my units out fast enough. The rest of the ships are unlocked through techs so ignoring that made her fairly weak.
• City flipping neighbors at war is far easier than flipping them when they are at peace. In my last game, Shaka's war with Kongo (both my neighbors) resulted in Shaka essentially handing cities over to me.
• You really need a lot of entertainment complexes/water parks on your borders to benefit from Bread and Circuses. I totally forgot to factor in Bread and Circuses into my city-flipping strategy!
• Faith infrastructure to fund rock bands is extremely helpful in the late game. Indie promoted rock bands are so important for city flipping and not being able to afford them really hurt my strategy.

So I'm thinking continents will benefit Eleanor the most, because it will give her the opportunity for some cross-continent play, but also enough room to actually flip cities. An early religion will ultimately help with the culture game and the faith gain, even though England gets no bonuses toward founding a religion. It seems like it's still good to keep science and faith up to stay competitive even though culture is the most important thing.

Anyway, I'm finding Eleanor to be kind of tricky for me. It feels like her bonuses don't really help until at least mid-game when you start getting great writers. It feels like you really take advantage of the city-flipping when the opportunity presents itself, but I'm finding it hard to also focus on taking advantage of their UU.

Perhaps England's UA that gives extra iron could be leveraged in an early war to strategically take cities that could exert good pressure.

 

[Victoria]

My tip is her abilities do not gel well so play Frelanor instead.

With the museums gone she has no advantage with a CV and no innate way to boost a CV and so my advice is as follows... people will disagree, it’s just an opinion.

Because you have no innate culture you need to find some fast which can be harder with the new civs. Scout first is a must to increase your chances of finding cultural CS. Enhance this with sailing and a 1 charge builder as your second build so it can explore the oceans. Push harbours early and get 1-2 more coastal cities going if you can, no more.
Because you are not getting an early craftsmanship due to only using 2 charges you should be pushing early empire for theatres anyway so no big deal.
You probably want 2 campuses first. These really help you get to printing and seaside resorts and sea travel as relying on Leif is not a good choice unless you see him there first. You need to concentrate on growth rather than production early and getting 2 galleys and 3 quads. The GA for harbours will boast these and you will get 2 fairly early loyalty admirals. Then go and find a place on another continent/part of the continent to invade, ideally cities that have theatres already... they will be weaker military wise also.
It is not an easy strat and you need to really concentrate but it is fun to land with settlers and taking a couple of cities then you can start the flip process on what s left of their civ. seems to work as long as there are coastal civs.

For island plates, the opposition has the same issue as you unless on a large island which you will not be able to flip easily at all. Take the vulnerable smaller ones. Raiding sea resources to remove food and happiness where possible in conjunction with golden age and bread and circus really helps but you know this stuff... make them starving and unhappy is key.

 

[whacker]

Victioria pretty much nailed it imho. Another thing that is overall very trong, but especially for eleanor: Pingala+Oracle. All the great writers you obtain that way will be a great help towards flipping enemy cities in the mid game.