Elemental magic

[Arexack_heretic]

So maybe only allow your available mages study level I of any elementalism (give 2 free Elemental techs)
Could you test out whether a tech can be acquired through any means (event/trading) if it cannot be researched by a civ.

I fear it is not possible.
Maybe can research can be blocked by python outside the CivilizationInfos...

 

[Ahriman]

So maybe only allow your available mages study level I of any elementalism (give 2 free Elemental techs)

I don't understand what you are saying here. Do you mean promotions?

In any case, I think the issue is a feature, not a bug. A Wonder that lets you get elementalists from outside your favored elements, but not archmages of those types.
But: can a Wonder allow you to build units that you don't have the tech pre-reqs for? I'm guessing no.

 

[Arexack_heretic]

I don't understand what you are saying here. Do you mean promotions?

Yes, I'm meaning promotions (I guess the promotions require having the TECH)

In any case, I think the issue is a feature, not a bug. A Wonder that lets you get elementalists from outside your favored elements, but not archmages of those types.

huh?

But: can a Wonder allow you to build units that you don't have the tech pre-reqs for? I'm guessing no.

I'm virtually certain you are right.
They may be gifted to you for free through. (but they wouldn't be able to learn their later level magics though)

 

[Ahriman]

huh?

I meant; the fact that elemental mages from non-favored elements would not be able to learn their level 3 magic if promoted to an Elemental master would be fine.

But I think its moot because there's no easy way to let you build the units without learning the techs; and if you learn the techs you could build the units anywhere - and it destroys the point of faction differentiation through limiting which elements they wield.

I don't like the idea of a wonder that gives you units when its completed; a Wonder is something you build now to get long-term benefits over time, not short-term benefits now.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

the idea for the elemental orders (as ive called them) is as follows:

Water Order:
-Requires: Elemental mastery and Water techs.
- gives free 'Fountain building (+1 health and +10% heal rate) to every city.
- provides +1 Sage GPP
- provides +4 Influence
- provides +50% science output
- Provides +2 free sage specialists
- Provides +2 EXP to all casters build in the city. (perhaps i should change this to a Free Water 1 promotion)

Air Order:
-Requires: Elemental mastery and Air techs.
- can airlift 1 unit per turn.
- minus 15% damage from air units
- 3 air unit capacity (im not sure what this does)
- provides +1 Sage GPP
- provides +4 Influence
- provides +50% science output
- Provides +2 free sage specialists
- Provides +2 EXP to all casters build in the city. (perhaps i should change this to a Free Air 1 promotion)

Earth Order:
-Requires: Elemental mastery and Earth techs.
- Provides free Stoneskin promotion to all units built in the city, and appiles it to units that enter the city.
- provides +1 Engineer GPP
- provides +4 Influence
- provides +50% science output
- Provides +2 free Engineer specialists
- Provides +2 EXP to all casters build in the city. (perhaps i should change this to a Free Earth 1 promotion, not sure if can double up with stoneskin though)

Fire Order:
-Requires: Elemental mastery and Fire techs.
- -50 crime.
- enemies suffer +20% war weariness
- +10% military unit production
- provides +1 Sage GPP
- provides +4 Influence
- provides +50% science output
- Provides +2 free sage specialists
- Provides +2 EXP to all casters build in the city. (perhaps i should change this to a Free Fire 1 promotion)

these wonders are NOT required to build any units and are meerly a special bonus.

 

[Ahriman]

3 air unit capacity (im not sure what this does)

Air unit capacity is the number of air units that can fit into a city. BTS introduced a cap on the number of air units in a city at 4 - and you can get 8 with an airport.
But there are very few air units in this mod, so this would do almost nothing.

But... I don't see any real need for these wonders.

The Colleges of magic are an innate part of how Winds magic works; you have to study books for many years in order to be able to learn how this magic works.
Elemental magic struck me as being more natural - like wizards vs sorcerors in Dungeons & Dragons. They don't congregate in big institutes of learning; instead, they just do their thing on their own.
The colleges are also less special if basically every faction gets its own college variant.

Theses wonders also seem too strong, particularly given that there will be almost no competition for them. Free specialists are a very, very powerful bonus, particularly given how few specialist slots there are in this mod (only 1 building that lets you get an engineer for eg).

There are 4 factions that can build the colleges - but only 2 that can build each of these wonders.
Elves get their towers - but suffer from the fact that they can only build several key units in the city that has the tower. And magic is a key advantage of the elven gactions.

If you really wanted to keep them, I would suggest toning them down significantly. They should be much less grand than the colleges.

Water Order:
-Requires: Master of Water tech.
- +3 health
- provides +1 Sage GPP
- provides +2 Influence
- provides +25% science output
- allows 2 units to be converted to sage.
- Provides +1 EXP to all adepts build in the city.

Air Order:
-Requires: Master of air tech.
- can airlift 1 unit per turn.
- minus 15% damage from air units
- provides +1 Sage GPP
- provides +2 Influence
- provides +25% science output
- allows 2 units to be converted to sage.
- Provides +1 EXP to all adepts build in the city.

Earth Order:
-Requires: Master of earth tech
- +20% city defense (stacks with all other bonuses)
- +2 hammers per turn.
- provides +1 engineer GPP
- provides +2 Influence
- provides +25% science output
- allows 2 citizens to be converted to engineer.
- Provides +1 EXP to all adepts build in the city.

Fire Order:
-Requires: Master of fire tech.
- -50 crime.
- enemies suffer +20% war weariness
- +10% military unit production
- provides +1 Sage GPP
- provides +2 Influence
- provides +25% science output
- allows 2 citizens to be converted to sages.
- Provides +1 EXP to all adepts build in the city.

All costing 200 hammers.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

ill just tone them down then. i think water should keep the free fountains though, its dosnt seem overpowered.

 

[Arexack_heretic]

Is it possible to gain a tech if it is forbidden in the civilizationInfos though?
(by python or any other means)

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Is it possible to gain a tech if it is forbidden in the civilizationInfos though?
(by python or any other means)

moethen likely. i suspect events would work.

 

[Ahriman]

I don't think I'd want a Wonder that gave them the entire tech to a non-favored element.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

I don't think I'd want a Wonder that gave them the entire tech to a non-favored element.

i agree. i was contemplating a totally UU elementalist hedge wizard with 1 weak elemental spell from each element.

ie
-Blaze (ala FfH)
-Quench (puts out fires, and/or temporarily turns desert to plains, and/or negate desert -strength penalty)
-Scry (reveals a random area of map, like finding a goody hut with maps, or acts like the Tzeentch Eye spell)
-Barricade (builds a minor Fort improvement instantly on the tile, or fully fortifys the unit like FfH treetop defence)

that would allow elementalist civs to have a minor taste of each element, but only able to specialise in their 2 favoured ones.

 

[Arexack_heretic]

hmm. Okay.

I just thought it might be a great wonder effect: unifying the elements.