Emperor Cookbook IV: Suryavarman II

[RJM]

Might as well vote. I think the main issue for our saves will be building the 2 engines. Theres no real production power house on our island and the engines take forever to build.

Also stopping Gilga getting UN. Not going to be easy.

I think we all knew this anyway so didnt use a spoiler.

We don't actually need 2 engines; the second engine only saves 2 turns off the journey time.

Also, I'm not too sure we need worry about the UN. He will need to get votes from a lot of other civs to force a diplomatic win.

RJM

 

[Gumbolt]

We don't actually need 2 engines; the second engine only saves 2 turns off the journey time.

Also, I'm not too sure we need worry about the UN. He will need to get votes from a lot of other civs to force a diplomatic win.

RJM

When the voting on this?? Is anyone else submitting??

As for Gilga UN. Does he actually have any enemies?? Not seen him at war with anyone. Could well vassel Sulie and thats free votes for him.

 

[Soirana]

Gilgamesh is still alive?

In all saves o_O

 

[helemaalnicks]

hi all,

I was gonna give this a try. I just have one pretty simple question. WTH are we in bureacracy?? Free speech gives us 7-8 commerce, loses us 3ish hammers in the capital...

 

[ChromiumL]

@Helemaalnicks:

We are about to have a vote on this round, so you are welcome to join after that, or when we start a new game (probably in a week or two).

As far as Bureaucracy... I may be missing something, but isn't it more like 6.5 hammers in the capital (50% of 13) and 24.5 commerce (50% of 59)?

Another general question along the same lines:

Why settle GS when you can build academies? I know each settled GS brings about 20ish extra science (and a hammer), but it seems like in many cases you can get more from building academies... am I missing something here?

My Round:

Spoiler :

Only going until 1700 didn't give time to do much... I think in future games I am going to change that. My round was pretty slow.

Tech: After finishing biology I did corporation and assembly line, then electricity. After that I realized I might start having health issues soon, and went for medicine. Then I figured that since we do have some production issues, getting the Three Gorges Dam might push us along--so I am heading for Plastics (still have 2 turns left on industrialism). In retrospect, medicine might not have been necessary so early (I forgot public transport gave another +1 health for oil), but we will need it before the end anyways...

Cities: I first worked on building Observatories in all cities that made more than 50-75ish science. I also figured that the best protection would be a good navy, so focused on building a few ships rather than too many troops. Just to explain--I am building a market in Vimaiapura for happiness (need to spread more religion there I guess). As soon as I got assembly line, I started building factories in my biggest production cities. Most of them are now completed. I also got two great generals and they were both settled (academy and instructor) in Nagara Jayasri. Hopefully thats a good spot--I always seem to settle them in places other people don't like

Relations: The first thing I did was cxled the trade with Monte and then got more for it (especially happiness resources!). It also turned out that it was a good thing I had build a few boats, since Monte declared on me around 1640ish. The ships he had left after I attacked landed troops near Isvarpura (on the coal). They were all outdated and suicided to infantry and machine guns. After that, all of the galleons he had left attacked my navy--and got destroyed. Unfortunately I did loose one ship of the line though. After that he gave me 110 gold for peace. I promptly resumed the iron trade for some happiness goodies and gold.

I think that's about it. As a side note--I did eventually have to switch to emancipation because of happiness issues, which was lame, since many cities were taking advantage of the unlimited specialists. The one island city is now especially hopeless. I am halfway through the build of a courthouse, and couldn't decide if I should switch over to a library so that I can have a few specialists or not. I ended up sticking with the courthouse, but every time I look at how pitiful it is, I regret it.

 

[ChromiumL]

Its votin' time!

Here are the submitted saves:

Ipex

ChrisShaffer

RJM

plattfuss

Gumbolt


Chromium

Lets vote through Saturday (about 3 days). Please also post your opinion about whether or not we should play the next round through a set date (1820 is 'supposed' to be the next cutoff) then vote again, or just play through to the win and see who can get there first.

 

[RJM]

As far as Bureaucracy... I may be missing something, but isn't it more like 6.5 hammers in the capital (50% of 13) and 24.5 commerce (50% of 59)?

Another general question along the same lines:

Why settle GS when you can build academies? I know each settled GS brings about 20ish extra science (and a hammer), but it seems like in many cases you can get more from building academies... am I missing something here?

I had a look at my save:
Free speech gives +2 gold in town = +82 beakers
Bureaucracy gives +50% gold and hammers in capital = 113 beakers, 5 hammers. The benefit of Bureaucracy in beakers would be lower if the research rate were lower, but there would be an additional benefit in gold.

A settled GS in Yasodharapura = +29 beakers; an academy in Angkor Thom = +37 beakers. The benefit of an academy in Angkor Thom would be lower if the research rate were 80 or 70% rather than 100%.

RJM

PS The benefit of free speech would be greater with more academies!

 

[RJM]

I was surprised how big the differences were, considering the relatively few turns this time. I wondered whether there might be an effect depending on when war was declared by Monty, but this doesn't seem to be the case. My votes:

#1 Gumbolt - only 27 turns from Apollo, but building it in Yas hits tech rate
#2 Chrom - potentialy the best tech rate, but has discovered neither rocketry or assembly line
#3 ChrisShaffer - good tech rate, tech position and discovered assembly line, but not rocketry

RJM

PS I don't mind greatly whether we continue to the end or set another break point, but I have a mild preference for seeing how different people approach building the ship.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

My votes
3 points. Platfuss- Good tech lead, factories, no combustion for Gil, +ve. Polluted G.P. points in capital, but had to be.
2 points. Chris Shafter- Gil has Combustion -ve, Assembly line, but no tech lead, but has Sids Sushi +ve
1 point. Gumbolt- Gil had Combustion again -ve, AND OIL!!!. Tech lead, NO factories/assembly line. Has a Great Engineer to use.

Others

RJM- Didn't vote for me (ha ha) seriously, Gil has Combustion, no factories, Has Aluminum Corp +ve, (though I think Standard Ethanol better choice), excellent science rate. Ragnar has Assembly line, rushed to Rocketry (I allway's leave till later)

Chroimium- Last to put up save (again ) Gil has Combustion and building 2 Oil wells (Rut Roh), Need Factories, Great Science rate, Iron works has too many sea tiles. (needed Moai statues I believe in that city), Selling Coal/trading coal why??

Note on my game, Oil sale, Gil can't use it, and I won't for 10 turns or so. Gil doesn't have Railroad even, so safe there.

I've highly valued Combustion/Factories.

I forgot to add, Aluminum speeds up the Apollo Project, and is only revealed with Industrialization. So no real need to rush to Rocketry. Big 2 are Aluminum and Copper, we have Al, but no copper

 

[ChrisShaffer]

Bureaucracy vs. Free Speech is at worst a break even. At best (for example in plattfuss' save) Bureaucracy generates 25 hammers and 116 beakers in the capital. For a few beakers, the turn of anarchy isn't worth it at all.

 

[Gumbolt]

My votes
3 points. Platfuss- Good tech lead, factories, no combustion for Gil, +ve. Polluted G.P. points in capital, but had to be.
2 points. Chris Shafter- Gil has Combustion -ve, Assembly line, but no tech lead, but has Sids Sushi +ve
1 point. Gumbolt- Gil had Combustion again -ve, AND OIL!!!. Tech lead, NO factories/assembly line. Has a Great Engineer to use.

Others

RJM- Didn't vote for me (ha ha) seriously, Gil has Combustion, no factories, Has Aluminum Corp +ve, (though I think Standard Ethanol better choice), excellent science rate. Ragnar has Assembly line, rushed to Rocketry (I allway's leave till later)

Chroimium- Last to put up save (again ) Gil has Combustion and building 2 Oil wells (Rut Roh), Need Factories, Great Science rate, Iron works has too many sea tiles. (needed Moai statues I believe in that city), Selling Coal/trading coal why??

Note on my game, Oil sale, Gil can't use it, and I won't for 10 turns or so. Gil doesn't have Railroad even, so safe there.

I've highly valued Combustion/Factories.

I forgot to add, Aluminum speeds up the Apollo Project, and is only revealed with Industrialization. So no real need to rush to Rocketry. Big 2 are Aluminum and Copper, we have Al, but no copper

I honestly dont think gilga will dow on us anyway. Certain Ai wont dow at pleased. So is the oil really a big problem.

Copper and aluminium may be a issue later on. Went for apollo as i thought best to get it out of the way!!! Dont think it can be rushed with gold or GE. I suspect building factories wont be a huge issue.

Will have to view the save later but it will be interesting to see the reasons behind the voting. We are by no means definately going to win this game whatever save we choose.

 

[assass1n]

Gilga DOWs at Pleased
Edited >_<

 

[Gumbolt]

The other strategy I would suggest is not starting any wars. If Gilga is keeping up techwise he could easily vassel many Ai if he DOW's someone. HRG sulie would fall quite easily I think. Monty too if he wasnt so far off. Although Cyrus could be a challenge for him.

Question is would Gilga go for a domination/conquest win?

Certainly going to be an interesting finish.

 

[ChromiumL]

Ipex: I always post last because I procrastinate ...

Also, I'm pretty sure that I am not trading coal (I only have 1 source, so not sure why I would want to trade it!). Moai was already being build in another city, so I just kept it there because I hated to waste all of the production that had been put into it.

I'm not quite sure I have ever understood the race for Apollo Project. I always wait until after industrialism to get the aluminum bonus when I build it... though I guess I can see the benefit to having it out of the way!

 

[Gumbolt]

Had a brief look and it appears a decision between going assembly line route. factories etc. This against Apollo and teching towards Aluminium tech. The space elevator wonder would help.

All of this put a side its going to take many many turns just to build a spaceship.

I think we should just play to the end now. I think its going to be a lot of clicking anyway. Last round was rather short given our island and map. I clicked quite quickly through the last round.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

I agree we should play the selected save to the end. I'll be able to look at the saves tomorrow morning to vote.

 

[plattfuss]

couldn't wait and played as far as possible with my last save ...

 

[Gumbolt]

Okay few thoughts first.
Techwise at break even chrom and RJM had best tech rates.

Platt had a good espionage rate of 56 comapred to most 20ish a turn. Had factories in production. 3 turns off indus tech.

Ipex had factories and was teching towards radio for some reason. Space race?


Cshaffer - lots of factories in production, 3 destroyers for naval defence.Bad rep with sulie monty and HRG. Religion is not helping here. Again rocketry and industria for space race?

RJM was producing apollo prog and was heading toward Assembly line tech.One of the better tech rates. Alum corp could be useful for production. Although we somewhat lack resources.

Chrom has reasonable tech/ Although Gilga had a vassel in Sulie.


In terms of the Apollo race and factories/Alum resource. I am of the view the earlier we build Apollo the sooner we can start on space ship parts. Factories and coal plants can be bought later with USuff. Not sure which approach will be quicker.

This in mind.

3pts RJM - early Apollo Program and on way to indus tech.
2pts Chrom - better tech rate and on way to ind tech. Reasonable Ai relations
1pts Platts. Again on the right track towards indus or rocketry.

I have to admit there is little or nothing really between the techs. Seems to me to be a choice over direction. This was very difficult to vote on. I think someone had the Sushi corp. Cant remember who. grrr.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

I'm the one that had Sid's Sushi founded.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

I like production.

#1 = 3 points Chromium good tech, great production, like the factories.

#2 = 2 points plattfuss good tech toward industrialization, good production. Needs more factories considering the tech path chosen. The espionage points are nice, but spread around, so not enough on any single AI to do anything.

#3 = 1 point RJM building Apollo, great tech rate, factories coming soon.