Emperor Domination

[johnny_rico]

for whipping yes
for drafting no
and switching to caste system while preparing for a golden age is . You will use as many tiles as possible to benefit from the GA, so not a lot specialists will be used.

Wow! Talk about half baked, I don't know why I suggested such a thing. Thanks for the whipping/drafting/hammers answer.

 

[futurehermit]

yeah, during GA you obviously don't want to be running specialists.

i think we have to make a couple decisions here:

1) are we going to go for bio and run specialists for research?

2) are we going to trigger a GA and maximize workable tiles (hammers and commerce)?

3) are we going to go first for military techs and war and worry about research later, if ever?

4) Something else?

I'm not 100% sold on windmilling, although I could be convinced. It's good I agree for growth but I tend to value a combination of food and hammers moreso than commerce (generally).

Is there anything else we can do with those gp than triggering a GA (that is as good or better)?

I've already stated my opinion, but I'll restate it for fun I think bio should be a priority for both research and warmongering. More food = more scientists. More food = better whipping/drafting. Use more scientists to beeline a military tech advantage. Use better whipping/drafting to pump out our advanced units.

Of course striving to fight with numbers is an option as well and I could be convinced of that, but I am sceptical that things would go smoothly with Nappy's power graph...

 

[lilnev]

Assembly Line is certainly the most important milestone, and I'm increasingly unconvinced of teching through Sci Method and Biology before starting on it. Especially as Caste System doesn't work with the Golden Age, and we'll want to be back in Slavery to crank out cannon for the war. At this point we're only three techs from Assembly Line, perhaps two if we can trade for Constitution.

How about this: turn off research until we're able to trade for Constitution (hopefully from Mehmed or Washington, I'd rather not give Steel to Nappy). That'll allow us to amass a pile of gold, and once we have Constitution we can fire off the Golden Age and power through Corporation and Assembly Line with the slider at 100%. In the meantime, let cities grow onto more tiles while building cannons (maybe some light whipping where appropriate, and the Globe city can keep drafting rifles for general utility).

peace,
lilnev

 

[johnny_rico]

I suppose I'm torn. Researching biology will allow our cities to run more scientists which is a plus with representation (why we built the pyramids). This will sync nicely with caste system.

Since war is our agenda, we need assembly line. They are two different research paths.

Assembly line seems to be more important. That's where I'm headed, with any luck an immediate trade for constitution. Work in the GA, generating as much research as possible. Build and mass cannons/rifles/grens. This should get us in the right direction for war with nappy/george.

Post war, we move to bio to crank our population to fuel the domination victory while running enough scientists so as not to stunt our growth, and pick our victim on the other side of the world.

About trading steel to george, since he is a vassal of nappy, won't nappy be able to acquire it from him with ease?

 

[lilnev]

About trading steel to george, since he is a vassal of nappy, won't nappy be able to acquire it from him with ease?

Not necessarily. I know whenever I gain a vassal I can't get any tech out of them because they don't like me enough. Though with time and shared wars, etc, they might have warmed up to each other. Check their attitudes towards each other.

The master can extract a resource (e.g. Copper), but other trade relations are handled as normal, I believe.

 

[50_dollar_bag]

Lurker's comment

Not necessarily. I know whenever I gain a vassal I can't get any tech out of them because they don't like me enough. Though with time and shared wars, etc, they might have warmed up to each other. Check their attitudes towards each other.

The master can extract a resource (e.g. Copper), but other trade relations are handled as normal, I believe.

That's true. I often see a vassal with a monopoly tech on it's master especially if it's a financial leader.
If it's the master they will usually gift it to their vassal assuming it's no a space race tech.

It would also depend on whether Napolean has anything to trade to Washington.

 

[johnny_rico]

Turn 0: Whip forges in Argos and Cologne. Trade Constitution to Mehmed for Steel. We also got WM and 50 in cash.

Turn 1: trade steel to genghis for corporation. Whip where needed. Rip off the golden age.

Turn 2: Avoid whipping and work maximum tiles. Debating whipping 3 pop in Thapsus for the FP but I don't do it. It's got a lot of good tiles, unsure if this is the right call. Nappy has democracy. Moving our cavalry through his turf, his military is enormous. When he does declare, he'll probably go after Carthage (on his border). It will be quite the siege. Opting to build drydocks in some of our coastal cities. Nappy has a nice navy also and we shouldn't leave our coast undefended.

Turn 3: Steam power in. Assembly Line (9 turns). We need Astronomy to build frigates. Genghis has it but won't trade it yet.

Turn 4: Nada. Whip the FP in Thapsus for 2 pop. Switch Rice from Carthage to Thapsus for quicker regrowth.

Turn 5: Nada

Turn 6: Nappy will go to war with Mehmed or Genghis for Steam Power. Seems like that will only gain us an enemy in Mehmed and force Nappy to build.....more troops. He's got so many troops he probably feeds them rats. Nappy is also pleased with us. I'm tempted to ask him for his cash but fear he will show up asking for steel or steam power. Perhaps he will anyway. Critique is always welcome, this has been a great learning experience.

Turn 7: Tempted to trade education to George for cash but since no one likes him, it is probably a bad idea.

Turn 8: Napoleon completes the SoL. Georgey boy showed up and I told him to pound sand. He was upset.

Turn 9: Nada much. I'm officially labeled as the team pacifist. All this turf, all this time, I've done little fighting and have yet to take a city. Nappy still has a lot of coin and I want to ask for it.

Turn 10: Our GA comes to a close and Nappy's begins. He kicked out a GS and GE two turns apart. I did a little housekeeping with each city this turn as our GA ends. Drafted a few rifles to keep the city at size 10. Whipped here and there, minimal. Got some drydocks built and have begun building some grocers in cities nearing their health cap (we have all four grocer resources).

Bonehead move in Munich, I built a watermill north of the city square. I was under the impression irrigation would carry through the city. It will need to be fixed. A minor inconvenience.

I'd avoid whipping and/or drafting in Thapsus. It's going to be a nice city but it needs time to grow. We should keep the rice tile here instead of Carthage, which I have stagnated to run max specialists.

Perhaps now is the time to ask Nappy for the cash. If we can keep running the slider at 80+%, Assembly line will be in fast but we need money. Some cities are running wealth to keep things managable. I'll put some work in making my exhilirating turnsets a little less wordy.

Attached is the save. Galileo is up. How fitting if you'd research Astronomy or pick it up from Genghis. We need astronomy for frigates. Too bad we haven't been able to squeeze out a great merchant.

 

[Giaur]

Good turnset ...

Now start producing Rifles in all cities to have produced infantry instead. If there are 2 turns to produce rifle and 2 turns to get Assembly line, city won't produce rifle and will convert hammers to infantry. We should not delay war too long. I did not check the save, but I think 5 turns is ok.

 

[futurehermit]

ok, this looks good. how about a detour to bio after we trade for scimeth and before we shoot for panzers?

do we want artillery before declaring on nappy?

also, with washington asking us to cancel deals with nappy, does that mean he has declared his independence from nappy? that would be huge and would allow us to attack them one at a time instead of together.....

 

[lasombra]

no georgey is still a vassal and we need to take a lot of nappy's land before he becomes free again...

I would detour to biology after AL.

oh another thing: has someone built oxford? should maybe do that for research...

also, let sparta work more farms for more drafting...

 

[johnny_rico]

George is still a vassal. They just don't like each other at all. Washington will probably turtle anyway. Once we take a city of his, he'll focus any counterstrike there and we should be able to hold with a smaller superior force.

Since we've just made a lot of cannons (we can probably stop now and switch to rifles everywhere for infantry), and cavalry get +50% vs. cannons, I'd say it's worth our while to rush to artillery. Once artillery is in, we run merchants in as many places as possible and stop research for a few turns to upgrade cannons to artillery and grens/rifles to infantry. Slow growth and hammers to work max cash while research is shut off. Cities can build wealth also. Build more banks?? Giaur's idea is great to start building the rifles so they come out infantry as Assembly Line comes in.

Questions during my turnset, I'd like addressed:

When should the FP should have been whipped, if at all. I did it, once the pop dropped to 2. I'm thinking while thapsus might have suffered from the 3 or 4 lost pop, all other cities will have gained.

Should I have asked Nappy for his money?

Should I have traded edu to george for his money?

Are the drydock and grocer decisions agreed with?

Since I usually play on monarch, I would've taken the cash from george regardless of outcome with relations demerits from others or if nappy would've asked for something a few turns later, I'd have told him no.

lasombra, I built a few more universities and I think the rest are being built to open up Oxford. Also corporation is now in. Not sure how many banks we have total, but as far as wall street goes, Nappy does have two shrines.

 

[futurehermit]

Relations with Nappy are fairly irrelevant at this point. True, we don't want him to declare before we are ready, but the AI generally smolders for awhile before attacking anyway. So, the concerns with relations are moreso with our friends overseas, mainly Mehmed (since if we attack overseas it will be Genghis). As long as Mehmed would still be happy, I would have gone for the $$$.

FP whipping is probably half a dozen of one, six of the other.

Drydock --> Meh

Grocer --> Depends on if we planning on growing quite large. I would think we will be whip/drafting at some point and not having really large cities. So I would only have built them if nothing else is immediately relevant

I'd like us to come to some consensus as to when we are going to go after bio. Are we going to wait until after a war with Nappy? I can be convinced either way, but farms really do help during wartime for whip/drafting. Also, if we research the majority of what we will need (I see us only needing up to industrialism) without bio then I would say that is not the most efficient mid-game researching since we aren't really set up as a CE.

 

[johnny_rico]

I think pushing for bio after artillery is a good idea. We'll be able to sci meth immediately, bio right after that.

I built the grocers for growth as I thought we'd need to keep growing pop for that side of the domination victory. I usually have more problems with populations than land %age.

Will the war with nappy be two phased, as in, beat him and sue for techs. I was thinking we could beat him down until Washington no longer need to stay vassalized to him, sue for peace gaining as much as possible and then we can take them out one at a time.

 

[lilnev]

Asking for Nappy's cash: AFAIK the only drawback is that he might say no if we've asked too recently (I asked him into war vs. Han ~20 turns ago), and it'll reset the clock as to when he'll next become amenable. I'd say wait until just before we're ready to declare.

Sell Ed to Washington: As futurehermit says, the only concern is whether Mehmed and Ghengis will care. Probably it's fine.

Drydocks and Grocers: At this stage I think I'd be inclined towards more cannons.

I don't think we need to wait until Artillery before declaring, but we do want a good number of cannons. Maybe 20 cannons, a dozen infantry, and a handful of cavalry would be enough to play defence until he exhausts his mobile surplus. Last I checked, Washington was already large enough to choose independence (>50% population), he just hadn't done so. I think if they split, that's good for us, but we shouldn't plan on it.

I would say Assembly Line, Bio, then Artillery. Then maybe Railroads before Industrialism?

 

[johnny_rico]

Thanks for the replies guys. I appreciate the input.

One more thing regarding our teching. Is combustion the tech that allows us to build oil wells? My only thinking is that I don't want us to hit industrialism for panzers and then have to go back and get the tech allowing us to build the oil well. Seems like wells take several turns to drill/make.

Since we've got a huge lead on the path to assembly line, should we try to build the pentagon somewhere?

on the drydocks and grocers, I figured at some point we we'd want them, we already have a bunch of cannons, and our military maintenance was going up because of troop count. I was trying to find a happy research medium by constructing buildings in some cities while still building military in four or five others.

 

[Giaur]

Pentagon would be nice. However if GE is born, I would spare him for Ironworks. And I would build Pentagon in that city. So I would wait for GE first.

Biology ... I get it after Flight, Rocketry and Radio. . I always run CE, combined with State Property, I have more workshops than farms.

btw. Do we have Coal?

 

[lasombra]

I like biology I would get it sooner rather than later...

no coal as far as I know. and georgey has a problem with land size, that's why he's not independent, yet.

 

[lasombra]

I go with lilnev's suggestions

 

[Giaur]

I would go Asembly Line -> Biology -> Physics (exchange) -> Electricity, not Artillery. We need marines as soon as possible. Weak infantry can't stand against artillery. Also Panzers would be nice.

 

[futurehermit]

k guys, well let's come to some consensus on 1) short term tech path and 2) when and with what we're attacking Nappy.