Emperor Greek AW - Honorable Rules SG/Trainer - PTW 1.21

We now have enough coastal cities, (4 coastal, 4 inland) I would concentrate on progressively filling up that inland North of Thermo/Athens/Delphi and just the one settler south of Corinth to grab one more bg and the gold.
Not a big fan of tundra fishing villages, we should leave that for later...
 
OK, it's looking good, things are moving along pretty well. Your far enough along that I can comment a bit on the past.

Waiting for the granary for the settler factory has cost you about 3 cities to this point. I had started with a standard 4 warrior build and then the granary. 4 warriors give an early military presence, 2 for scouting and 2 for MP duty. I never used Athens for anything other than settlers early on, that was it's specialty.

Your a bit behind on research cause you've already done a 40 turn stint on iron working. In AW, later in the game , techs are always a concern so early delays can be costly later. Generally, in AW, I research hard, except when the Great Library is doing the work.

Yes, it's quiet so far, but remember, the AI are also building their empires. There are 6 civs building things at a 20% cost reduction, that means they are producing probably 6 times what you are currently producing, it's a tough road, the calm before the storm, for sure. The 3 tile rule is to help prevent reaching out to far to fast. So, you need 2 cities to reach out 6 squares but that does not take much longer given your position and the safety factor more than makes up for it, I stuck with the 3 tile rule the whole game, I've seen too many games of this variant type over extend only to be pushed back and have all those early advances stripped away. If you have never played a civ with a tight build, you will have fun with the power of it's defensive capabilities, I guarantee it. :) I'm not trying to convert anyone to the tight build, just add it to your arsenal.

I put the build wonders with Great Leaders rule in so that you would position yourselves to maximize your production of Great Leaders. In AW, you should be expecting to be having battles every turn, that many battles should seed you with many GL's over the course of the game. I'm a firm believer in the power of the artilery units, a win over a 1HP unit has as much chance to produce a Great Leader as a win over a fully healed veteran unit. ;) Given that the AI will be coming after you, just hold the fort and blast them.

Speaking of wonders, don't overlook the Pyramids, doubling your growth in a tight build cannot be over looked as a very powerful choice or even as a short term goal. The Great Library and FP are obvious, but construction of great wonders always involves time pressure. Given choices, I'd tend to build the available time pressured wonders first.

Now you see more of the map (this was the second map generation, first was a jungle start, JMB), you can see why it was too hard to stop playing this one. I've never really been lucky generating maps, I see lots of people with bonus food and a lux at the start, I seem to only get that once every 100 maps.
 
Regarding research, I was thinking that we should perhaps shut off research for now. The reason I think this might be a good move is that the other AIs are likely in contact with each other and have likely traded techs around. Therefore, I think it is unlikely that we'll have any techs that they don't already have. By turning off research we can save a lot of gold for purchasing contacts and techs once we encounter our first civilization. If we were going to continue researching, I think we should go for something like Monarchy (although Mathematics would be very nice too...).

With how isolated we seem to be from the other AIs, it might be a good idea to get contact with a bunch of them ASAP so that we can prevent them from building a lot of infrastructure and get them into wartime mode and can purchase techs cheaply...

JMB
 
'I got it'

don't have much time right now but here are my quick thoughts. We have lots of distance between us and the AI - continue expansion. I'll poke around a bit in the north and see what I can see, I really can't believe we don't have contact yet. I think we would have in a Diety game. I think we should stick with the 3 space rule for cities because the troop shuffle will be so nice.

I'll check back in before playing tonight to see if there has been any discussion.
 
Gothmog : please settle that Cow site, which ever way you want but no more coaastal cities please ;)
 
Indeed, we must make sure we don't overextend ourselves, but we *need* horses.

The only way I've found to effectively protect one's self in Always War is to use artillery to bombard them down to being redlined, use swords to take out the guys on the top of the stack, and use a horse to take out the last guy who retreats. If you don't have horses, then you're always going to leave swords vulnerable to counter-attack, and will lose more units than you can bear. Killing two units for the loss of one isn't even close to acceptable.

So, short story is....we *need* horses. :)

We are going to have lots of GLs, and the Pyramids are great, but not being a militaristic civ, it will be a risk to get them before the Library, since it is possible not to see a GL for a long time in Always War, and if we don't get the Library, we could be in real trouble.

As for whether we should keep researching or not, I'm not sure...b-lining for Monarchy at this stage could be good, since the AIs might not have it, although we probably couldn't get it before contact.

-Sirp.
 
Mathematics would get my vote. Artillery to limit losses is really nice. So is having cities without barracks produce really useful units.

I think turning research off is a VERY bad idea and would strongly recommend that we keep researching at or near max. We need to keep up, somewhat at least, in techs.

Lit would be my second choice. Third choice would be the road towards Monarchy. We'll want some culture at some point, plus having the GLib option available if we get an early leader, which encourages literature. We can actually support more units in despotism than in Monarchy and don't need the third MP yet, so I think that's the least attractive option.

My 11 374 291 lira,
Arathorn
 
Yeah I'm going Math @max.

I'll try to settle the cows and poke around for those *oh so necessary* horses. :)

playing now.
 
Preturn - perfection. Click...

(IT) - Writing -> Masonry (Walls, yes) in 6 @+4. The iroquois complete the Oracle.

(1) 1225 - I decide to settle a spot west of the furs first. This site does have 2 cows in its first 9 + furs and is 3 away from Thermopylae and 3 away from the other on the river cows spot. Why have we built a mine outside our territory south of Corinth? I guess I'll road the spot since I'm there.

(3) 1175 - Athens is a nice settler farm. Mycenne founded -> worker.

(4) 1150 - Athens settler -> settler

(5) 1125 - Start hooking up Iron w/2 workers.

(6) (IT) - Masonry -> Math in 10.

(7) 1075 - Reach second cow spot. Still no horses anywhere in all my exploration, no other civs either.

(8) 1050 - Athens settler -> settler. Herakleia founded on river near cows.

(9) 1025 - Ephesus founded, this is a first ring city SE of athens.

(10) 1000 - Sparta needs to take forests 1 turn out of three to build Hoplites w/no waste. It can build swords w/no waste though.

We are #1 in population, GNP, Mfg. goods, literacy and production - good job guys.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CB1AW1000BC.zip
 
IT 1000BC: All this exploration and we still haven't seen horses? Ouch! Nasty stuff.

I must admit I have always found it a little strange how taking sci from 80% to 90% when lux stays constant at 10% can change the amount of luxuries distributed (in this case, Thermopylae has 5 commerce, 1 going to lux, 4 to science, but all 5 will will go to science if science -> 90%), a little strange, but that's the way it works, so science stays at 80%.

My big aim this turn will be to solidify our build.

1 975BC: Mycenae worker -> worker. If we explore much further we will be *bound* to make contact, but I really want to find a supply of horses. One warrior move north does it! There are horses north-east of Herakleia! I'd just love to say it was my exploring brilliance that did it :)

Securing them will be difficult though, to be sure. It's an aggressive reach up there to get them. Still lots of closer cities to get first. Lux -> 20%.

2 950BC: Athens settler -> settler. Sci -> 100% with the settler build and furs being hooked up this turn, we can afford to nix luxuries, and get math in 3 turns.

3 925BC: Sparta hoplite -> hoplite. Thermopylae sword -> sword. Thermopylae grew to size 6 this turn, and I gave it a tax collector rather than raise lux by 20% costing us 6gpt. We could pull a worker out of it, but I am loathe to pull a worker from such a low-food city. With us likely having the only two luxuries we can see for the majority of the game, happiness is going to be a big problem.

4 900BC: Pharsalos barracks -> sword.

5 875BC: Math -> literature. Due in 9 @ -3 gpt. Knossos is switched from barracks to catapult. Lux -> 10% as Athens reaches size 6.

6 850BC: Thessalonica is founded to fill in the gap between Argos and Herakleia. I did choose a position that is a little more spaced than the rest of our build (3 tiles between it and the next city to the SW, NW, and SE), but I think it's in a location that makes sense. It could have been settled one tile to the south-east I suppose. *shrug*. It was settled next to a village, which was deserted. Now we have a very straight-lined border to the north-west.

7 825BC: Herakleia worker -> worker. Athens settler -> settler. lux -> 0%. This settler will make a grab for the horses. Well, he'll settle a city that'll have them in range after border expansion anyhow.

8 800BC: Corinth barracks -> sword. Knossos catapult -> catapult.

9 775BC: Ackkk! An evil people who we have heard rumored as being known as the 'Japanese' have just founded a city next to OUR horses! We do not have contact with this evil and insidious people, but we have heard that that is where they have settled their city!

CB1AW-izumo.jpg


Our swordsmen (all 3 of them) are moved into the region so when contact is made, we may strike the city to the ground as soon as possible, if that's what we want to try. Our settler who was heading for that spot is sent to a more conservative location.

10 750BC: I leave the settler unmoved; my plan is to settle him on the bonus grassland, because although it wastes the bonus grass until the city is over size 6, I still think it's the best-spaced location. We might want to send him somewhere else entirely though, especially considering whether we want to make contact with Japan.

On that note...do we want contact with Japan? We might be able to go for who knows how long still without making contact. But....the time for wonders is going to start creeping away at this rate. The Pyramids might already be close to gone, and surely we don't want to risk missing out on the Great Library. Risking not getting the FP until much later is also a danger.

War without horses would be damn hard. Perhaps we want to try to muster as many swords as we can, and go and raze the Japanese blight, replacing it with our own city? I really don't know.

This is getting even more intense. Our settler was only a few turns away from that site when the Japanese city popped up! It could only have gotten closer if we had met the Japanese settler at the site.

It would be nice if we could get some cities all the way up to the lakes in the north-west, because the lakes will offer natural protection. If we can do that, our entire land front could consist of only about a dozen tiles. This is certainly alot of fun!

CB1AW-750BC.jpg


-Sirp.

The Game
 
My suggestions....

Start Heraklia on FP now -- if we don't get a leader fairly quickly, we'll want to hand-build it. That also means that Heraklia is a huge point to defend. Being behind the river might help some, but it will be a hotspot. I still think it's worth doing.

Get about 4 swords, a couple hoplites, a 'pult or two, and a settler, and go raze Izumo. We will need/want those horses. It draws a "line in the sand" about what we consider our territory. If we can defend the Izumo/Heraklia/??? line in the north, I think we'll do pretty well. Actually, getting a city north of Heraklia to be our line would be very nice, too.

I'd pop a settler out of Corinth to start claiming tundra. We'll want that land as ours, so that we can see all AI landings and only have to keep a small "zone" defense back there, not a city-razing force.

I don't think Thessalonica needs walls. I'd change it, probably to a 'pult.

Overall, I think things are looking pretty OK. But we'll need to start really focusing on military soon. Therm/Sparta have given us a good start, but we'll need more. Just another 8 cities.... Hmm...that's probably overly optimistic.

Arathorn
 
Yes, I'm thinking we want to take out Izumo too. I just don't think we can win without horses, so we'd better take the city.

We should be able to get at least six more cities: the horse city, two more to the north, three to the south. Hopefully more, but that's a minimum.

The roster:

JMB
Gothmog
Sirp <--- just played
Skyfish <--- UP NOW
Arathorn <--- on deck
 
Well the game is starting to force some issues.

The Japanese grabbing those horses is definitely a pretty major problem. Hand building a FP will take 200 turns, if you don't get a Great Leader before that in AW, you are getting hosed. :) The cities got a little strung out on the way so the routes to the front will be more by road than by city which could cost you later if you have to shift units around much. The current proposed FP site is only not too far from Athens so in the long run you will lose some potential production due to the overlap with the palace. But it's shaping up for some fun.
 
One thing we know is that we will be at war on Skyfish's turn. In all likelyhood Japan will sell around contact and we'll be at the bottom of a dogpile before you can say over-extend. We do want the horses, but only if we can hold the city. Probably a good idea to raze Izumo, then re-settle later (we may raze IzumoII and IzumoIII before then too). If we try to hold Izumo right off I would want a bare minimum of 4 hoplites, more like 6.

We want to take advantage of geography and using the lakes as Sirp suggests would be a good move.

Looks like Skyfish is on the hotseat! Goodluck!
 
I don't think we'll necessarily be at war on Skyfish's turn, if we don't want to be. The AI can take *ages* to make contact, even with almost-touching borders. If we avoid it, we might still have 20+ turns of no contact. Maybe.

But, if we want to take out Izumo, I say go for it asap. We want to get to it before it grows to size 2, so it can't whip out a spear. It'll have one spear in it, probably, which will be slaughtered by 3 swords, but if it can whip out another one, we'll need 4 or 5 swords to make a victory for us a sure thing.

-Sirp.
 
Back
Top Bottom