[BTS] Emperor Large Marathon game for those who normally play Noble or Monarch.

[Severus]

Anyway for anyone interested this was how my game panned out:

Spoiler Game spoiler :

I settled in place and went BW, built a worker then chopped a second, then chopped settlers for Lakamha and Chichen Itza to grab the corn & gold and share some cottages with the capital in Lakamha and grabbed the nine(!) floodplains and corn in Chichen Itza. Expansive would be a nice help in Chichen Itza as it grew up to size 22 later in the game. Tech path after BW was Agriculture, AH to finally improve the starting double pigs in the capital, The Wheel, Pottery, Writing.

I found another nice spot on the west coast with pigs, clams and more gold and settled Uxmal. Even by this point Pacal's financial trait and all my river tiles meant my neighbour Asoka was lagging behind quite a distance in tech so I ended up self-teching Iron Working and settled my most northern city Mayapan on the Indian border to grab it, such a nice map so it was another city settled right next to more pigs and the iron. The map was so nice that I was regretting playing it on Emperor, I think Immortal would've felt very straightforward too.

Financial fuelled expansion after that until Civil Service at 400 BC and a look at the core of my 9 city empire at that point:

Peaceful expansion, my empire at 1 AD:

Hun on the southeast coast and Izancanac on the easy coast would be my golden age GP pumps once they'd grown substantially. Pigs and two fish / pigs fish and crab in those two cities. Ridiculously nice map.

Then I did the usual Cuirasseir rush, upgrading my pre-built war elephants with the gold from the two GMs I popped and by 745 I was ready to war for the first time against Asoka:

The mandatory loss at 99.1% odds pic

I wiped out Asoka. By 880 I was in position to declare on Saladin my neighbour on the western continent. He capitulated in 2 turns after I grabbed the Hindu shrine in Mecca giving a pretty nice +66 per turn. The war against Pericles followed in 915 but he wouldn't capitulate until he was down to 2 cities and when he did it was to Suleiman who he'd bribed into the war along with Bismark. By this point it was Cavalry against LBs though and the whole world could've declared without me minding. By 1080 I'd signed peace with Bismark and capitulated Pericles and Suleiman bringing me to 45% of land with their newly acquired territories:

 

[Severus]

Spoiler Game write up part two: :

15 years after taking the Ottomans my troops were ready at the Dutch border:

By 1170 the Dutch border had mysteriously vanished:

And by 1200 Domination was achieved, thankfully without having to spend another few turns invading Bismark on his island. Happy Pacal:

Easiest Emperor game I ever played I think. I suppose it's time to go back to Immortal. If you read it all I hope you enjoyed it!

 

[Severus]

I agree that perhaps there are details that make it non-linear, but there is no real reason to overcomplicate the conclusion.

Simplicity bad, over-complication good

 

[Gumbolt]

Financial leader with that start no reason not to go immortal. Largest AI had about 14 cities. I suspect with the shared religion it became about financial ruling all. Many on that map won't declare at pleased.

On my last game which I just cheesed some AI had 24-26 cities. Mansa on about 18 cities on a seperate island. I had cavalry around 1200ad so tech can be quicker on a huge map. GLH, Mid and a 36 turn golden age helped. Actually mansa kept up pretty well. I forgot to switch to bureau till late but still got the job done. I did a brief cavalry war with neighbour who gave up. English peace vassal. Even at 1500ad+ some AI still had LB when I was teching artilery. All about economies of sclae on huge maps. Once you have 25-30 cities, mixed with communism things quickly swing your way. Financial leader would of made this easier. If I had played a pangea map that might of been different. 10 AI also adds some spice.

Large/huge maps add something different but are a lot more work. Maybe challenge of standard maps is you can't build such large empires and have to fight for the land. So 3-4 city breakout rushes can be more challenging and fun. Maybe if you have a good runaway warmonger or a strong unpredictable AI like Cathy games can be more interesting. Unlike this game where Sury attacked a neighbour with a 30+ strong stack and after taking 2 cities just took peace. At times the AI lacks killer instinct to just roll over a map. I am trying to creat maps that are not just about cuirs rushes so I can use some different units.

 

[Severus]

Yep I should’ve changed it up to immortal, I have no idea how to do that once the game has started though

I’ve never played a huge map all the way through I don’t know how you can put up with the tedium of finishing off a won game. I played quite far into one once and absolutely loved the map, there was one area of desert that filled the entire screen with a stretch of floodplains through it and it felt so realistic. But then I met the other civs and they all had 20 to 25 cities and I just thought “Nah, I’m not going through the pain of conquering all of those” and gave up.

I’m the same with cuirs. I noticed in my hall of fame the three games I’ve finished since I started playing again have all ended within 50 years of each other, all cuirs then cavs on the last couple of AIs. Even on large it’s a slog pushing through to the end just for the sake of finishing it, I’m amazed you do it on huge.

 

[Gumbolt]

Cheesing was not that hard. AI spread AP religion to all my continent cities. The plan at start was to try a naval game. I needed a few strong war mongers this game. Instead of war I just spammed cities with GLH bonus.

 

[sampsa]

I’ve never played a huge map all the way through I don’t know how you can put up with the tedium of finishing off a won game.

Even on large it’s a slog pushing through to the end just for the sake of finishing it, I’m amazed you do it on huge.

Indeed. I'm amazed someone has the patience to do it on large! You played a very nice game , but it was probably clear to you at the time of your first attack how it's going to be. Just grab the stuff from guy 1, then grab the stuff from guy 2, repeat until victory screen. My only complaint about civ4 as a game is that it takes too long to win a won game.

 

[Severus]

Indeed. I'm amazed someone has the patience to do it on large! You played a very nice game , but it was probably clear to you at the time of your first attack how it's going to be. Just grab the stuff from guy 1, then grab the stuff from guy 2, repeat until victory screen. My only complaint about civ4 as a game is that it takes too long to win a won game.

Thanks very much! It’s usually not too bad on large. My games usually take 18 or 19 hours total because I play slow and don’t use stack attack, this one took longer because I had more land to start with than usual. Lain’s deity games seem to average maybe 10 hours so double the time on large seems about right. I dread to think how long @Gumbolt ’s games take though

You’re right, even at 2000BC with such a tech lead already I knew it would pan out just like that. I always wished domination only required 50% of land, the extra 10% is what seems to add on the highest amount of tedium.

 

[mamonth]

Playing eternity gygantic random map atm (back to game after 7+ years, only played CIV5)

 

[Gumbolt]

Downisde for huge low sea level games is economies of scale. That and AI stupidity.
I had expanded peacefully to 10-12 cities. Hannibal was in war mode and I could see his NC and catapults heading my way. I whipped about 10-12 phants. He lost about 22 units. Didn't lose a single phant from his incoming army. I was attacking his stack at pretty much 99% odds. Guess the AI would not expect me to whip phants when I had little or no army?

Romans were equally bad at warfare against the Indians Early on. Even with Preat they were getting nowhere against an AI that should not have a high unit probability. Even on their 2nd/3rd war with a huge stack they only managed to take one city. Makes me think for a serious break out AI you need a miracle to happen on Civ 4 as after the first city falls they run out of steam.


Got a bit complicated later when Hannibal became Toku vassal. Phants are pretty strong early game till pikes. Once I had about 24-30 cities game felt over. I had 60+ cuirs for Indians. Then cheesed out. Could of done a naval conquest of final land mass but cheese was the order of the day. I might try next game without low sea level and stick with huge map.

 

[pigswill]

One aspect of marathon vs normal speed that doesn't get mentioned very often is that workers are better on marathon (cost 120h = 40h normal and fewer turns lost moving between tiles).

 

[dankok8]

Marathon is definitely easier because you get a much bigger window to attack before your units face parity. Having a 120-turn window with say Cuirassiers instead of a 40-turn window just makes things a lot easier. If I'm not wrong, I think marathon also scales unit costs differently. Buldings costs, techs etc go up 3x but unit costs only 2x. I would go as far as to say that Immortal/Marathon is probably about as hard as Monarch/Normal because war is one aspect where an AI cannot compete with a human.

Larger maps definitely are harder than standard sized maps though. I used to play huge maps with 12-18 civs and the odds of a runaway AI is much higher due to vassaling. Getting dogpiled is also way more common since you get large religious blocks and as a human player you don't have a big army unless you're at war so you're near the bottom in power and often an easy target. So increasing map size can compensate for slower game speed but my hunch is still that Huge/Immortal/Marathon is easier than Standard/Immortal/Normal. Maybe I'll fire up a huge map soon after a long time not playing them.