Emperor Science OCC - tips

TheGrandWazoo

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Recently I've been attempting to win OCC science victory on emperor pangaea, and have been struggling a little - usually I get beaten by another Civ around turn 350, I just don't seem to be able to finish up the end of the tech tree fast enough.

I'd appreciate any tips on my current save. I'm playing as Persia, and have just opened representation on turn 127, after completing tradition. I made a stop to get Petra even although I have only 2 desert tiles, maybe that wasn't right? I'm fairly sure my main problem here is with research agreements, I can't seem to time them right. In the current game I have not made any friendships yet. Whenever I go to a civ to offer, they decline me so I'm left waiting on them to come to me. I'm guessing I need to be working with them to get closer to DoF but not sure how!

I've also attached the initial autosave for this game, and a screen of the start location, as to me it looks like a very nice map to be playing OCC if anyone wants to try it out themselves :)

I won't put a screen of my current position yet, in case anyone wants to play the map for themselves.

Thanks in advance for any tips!!
 

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The Pilgrim

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Welcome to CFC! :)

This doesn't look like a great location for OCC. Maybe there is more in the fog, but no food resources and jungles are bad news. You need to grow as fast as you can as early as you can, food is mega important. And Petra is most definitely a waste here.
As for RA's, I find it much easier to renew DoF's than to sign them in the first place. So I try to accept AI's proposals the moment they start coming (and they do very early). Also Sadato in his guide mentions some ways to make AI friendlier, like rotating spies and sharing intrigue, bribing different civs into wars with each other, denouncing the most hated guy etc.
In addition, keep in mind that on emperor first wave (or two, or three :rolleyes:) of RA's won't grant a huge amount of beakers. AI isn't too advanced and since you don't have any boosters yet, you won't get too much for your investment. And AI's painfully broke on top of everything. OCC is all about location and random luck, on some maps you just can't finish early.
 

marekb

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have just opened representation on turn 127, after completing tradition.
Did you mean Rationalism? I see no sense in opening Liberty when doing OCC (golden age costs too much culture).


I made a stop to get Petra even although I have only 2 desert tiles, maybe that wasn't right?
If you have nothing more important to build, you can try it, but in this case faster growth and more units or some buildings are better choices.

I'm fairly sure my main problem here is with research agreements, I can't seem to time them right. In the current game I have not made any friendships yet. Whenever I go to a civ to offer, they decline me so I'm left waiting on them to come to me. I'm guessing I need to be working with them to get closer to DoF but not sure how!
As far as I know, asking for DoF gives no results unless you renovate DoF. RAs are extremely important in OCC. I do not think you can win by science without RAs on emperor. And to finish quickly (sub 300) I think you need to have at least 3-4 RAs every 30 turns. If you have no friends, send your spy to various capitals and share intrigues. This is a very effective way to make friends. I like to leave spy in my capital for some turns for promotion and gaining AI altitude for forgiving them spying.

Looking at screenshot I would probably settle on the other side of the river, near mountain (observatory helps a lot) and cotton or (if terrain looks promising) on the jungle hill next to the cotton.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Thanks for the tips and the welcome :) I actually thought having a lot of grassland with river would be good enough for growth. I settled on top of the hill by the mountain to the south, but the only food resource was a grassland cow. So I guess I would need 2 or 3 bananas or wheat to make this viable?

I got a DoW from Askia early on in the game, and no one has offered me a DoF. Is that just my bad luck?


I normally play emperor but I'm starting to find it too easy, so I thought I'd move on to OCC before trying immortal level... Judging by your comments I'd be better off trying immortal first if OCC is more about luck than anything else?
 

The Pilgrim

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As far as I know, asking for DoF gives no results unless you renovate DoF.
Sometimes AI agrees to DoF suggested by a player. Not often though. It's easier to wait for proposal, I think.

Thanks for the tips and the welcome :) I actually thought having a lot of grassland with river would be good enough for growth. I settled on top of the hill by the mountain to the south, but the only food resource was a grassland cow. So I guess I would need 2 or 3 bananas or wheat to make this viable?
Yeah, granary resources ftw. :) You can't have too much food.

I got a DoW from Askia early on in the game, and no one has offered me a DoF. Is that just my bad luck?
Possible. Also depends on your neighbors. If you're jammed between 5 warmongers while cranking out wonders, don't expect DoF's. :)

I normally play emperor but I'm starting to find it too easy, so I thought I'd move on to OCC before trying immortal level... Judging by your comments I'd be better off trying immortal first if OCC is more about luck than anything else?
It's about good start more than anything else. Or to be precise about knowing what you're looking for a good start. It's okay to move for couple of turns (even 3-4). But OCC usually requires rerolls. I assume you can win on emperor without rerolling, but again, no super speedy finishes in this case unless you're extremely lucky with your spawn.
 

marekb

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I got a DoW from Askia early on in the game, and no one has offered me a DoF. Is that just my bad luck?
It happens sometimes. But usually you can make some friends with your spies.

I normally play emperor but I'm starting to find it too easy, so I thought I'd move on to OCC before trying immortal level... Judging by your comments I'd be better off trying immortal first if OCC is more about luck than anything else?
I find OCC in some sense easier than normal game. Normally I play on Prince, recently on King and played OCC on Immortal. Playing OCC you have less thing to control and it is usually easier defend one city than a couple.

The starting location is very important, but I think that you can win on Emperor in 90% and below 100% (if your starting location is not very bed). The game is more about diplomacy and making friends. Of course fast wining is a matter of luck (starting terrain and your competitors). However, on higher level a luck is more important. If you have a Civ that eats all other, then although you probably can defend yourself you cannot win fast (and on Immortal+ it means that you lose).

Sometimes AI agrees to DoF suggested by a player. Not often though. It's easier to wait for proposal, I think.
I was asking DoF several times with 0% of success, but a few time AI came next turn to ask for DoF.

Yeah, granary resources ftw. :) You can't have too much food.
HG is a very nice WW, but it often a gamble - you need to be prepare to be beaten by several turns.

Also depends on your neighbors. If you're jammed between 5 warmongers while cranking out wonders, don't expect DoF's. :)
If they are equal, mor or less, in force and are plotting each against other, it is usually quite easy to make them friend with a spy.
 

The Pilgrim

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I find OCC in some sense easier than normal game. Normally I play on Prince, recently on King and played OCC on Immortal. Playing OCC you have less thing to control and it is usually easier defend one city than a couple.
In addition you don't aggro AI by your rapid expansion. So in many senses OCC is easier than normal game. And in many - harder.

If you have a Civ that eats all other, then although you probably can defend yourself you cannot win fast (and on Immortal+ it means that you lose).
It means you have fewer RA partners. However, I successfully maintained a very friendly relationships with many runaways. Unless they are next to you, they are your best bet for RA's. Their bpt is high and thus the revenues from RA's are high as well.

I was asking DoF several times with 0% of success, but a few time AI came next turn to ask for DoF.
That's more common, I agree. But my DoF's have been accepted couple of times. 10% chance, I'd say. Renewing them is a lot easier.

HG is a very nice WW, but it often a gamble - you need to be prepare to be beaten by several turns.
Yup. ToA + HG + Petra + all possible food boosting believes - that's how you achieve the best finish. Can't stress enough, how important the food is in OCC.

If they are equal, mor or less, in force and are plotting each against other, it is usually quite easy to make them friend with a spy.
If they're plotting against each other, sure. If they're plotting against you, it's another story. Wonder spamming often means military neglect and this is recipe for disaster. On immortal+. On emperor... Well, to be honest, I've never played emperor OCC, but theoretically you can get away with having next to no military. Defense should not be the problem. The problem is military weakness 'invites' aggression and once AI turned against you, it's very hard to befriend it for the rest of the game.
 
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