Endgame Discussion

[Atlas627]

So we've seen the first 2/3rds of the game a few times now, and we have some hints at what the endgame might entail from the culture cards revealed so far. I just saw this video from PartyElite discussing some endgame content that the Devs have either told or showed the press

Spoiler Video :

and I was wondering what you guys were thinking we would see and what you were hoping for.

I, for one, hope that there will be significant rule changes from Era to Era. Seems like Industrial introduces fast transport via Rail as well as bombardment from outside of combat. I hope there can be some changes to where you can place districts, so that early game you really have small cities in the most lush spots, but as the game progresses you can build colonies, remote mines/plantations, and eventually planned suburbs.

Thoughts?

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

So we've seen the first 2/3rds of the game a few times now, and we have some hints at what the endgame might entail from the culture cards revealed so far. I just saw this video from PartyElite discussing some endgame content that the Devs have either told or showed the press

Spoiler Video :

and I was wondering what you guys were thinking we would see and what you were hoping for.

I, for one, hope that there will be significant rule changes from Era to Era. Seems like Industrial introduces fast transport via Rail as well as bombardment from outside of combat. I hope there can be some changes to where you can place districts, so that early game you really have small cities in the most lush spots, but as the game progresses you can build colonies, remote mines/plantations, and eventually planned suburbs.

Thoughts?

There are some intriguing hints in the Tech Tree, which with a little digging was available in complete detail through the Fifth Age in the Victor Open Dev.
In the Early Modern Age, for instance, is a Settlers Unit which starts a City without going through the Outpost stage at all, and among the Techs are some in Early Modern and Industrial Ages that provide Colony Plan and Colony Blueprint, both of which start new Cities at 3 population with a bunch of bonuses 'built-in'. In addition, there are several Buildings (Infrastructure) you construct in cities from the Early Modern Age on that provide Universal Bonuses: for example, "Coal Generators" (Power Plant?) that provides bonus Food, Production, Science, and Money on every Farmers Makers, Research, and Market Quarter in that city. That's Huge!

So it looks like the late game provides some seriously accelerated City Building and Growth mechanics - the flood of Urbanization and population growth around the world in the 19th and 20th centuries IRL, in other words, seems to be modeled in the game. Whether the game includes all the potential problems as well as benefits from that remains to be seen.

There is also a hint at more Unconventional Warfare. There is a Guerrilla Warfare Tech and Partisan and Saboteur Units, and several Emblematic Units, like the Haudenosenee's, have a 'Stealth' capability that means you cannot see them unless you are adjacent to them. This implies (to me) that late game warfare, in addition to long-range, off-battlefield Artillery, Naval Gunfire and Air Support and area bombardment of entire Quarters and cities, will also include nasty little infantry units that none of that stuff can target easily, forcing some very interesting decisions about Asymmetrical Warfare on the gamer (and, potentially, leaving the door wide open for some really fascinating Emblematic Faction units in DLCs, like Stealth Comanche Raiders or North Vietnamese Sappers or Finnish Ski Troops)

 

[grug]

I saw on the wiki that the Soviet EQ creates "weapons," and while I have no idea what that means it seems like a new mechanic for the late game. My idea is maybe its a manufactured strategic/ luxury resource that could show the power difference of pre vs post industrial warfare, along with stuff like the arms trade or logistical support of less advanced allies.

 

[mitsho]

In the Early Modern Age, for instance, is a Settlers Unit which starts a City without going through the Outpost stage at all, and among the Techs are some in Early Modern and Industrial Ages that provide Colony Plan and Colony Blueprint, both of which start new Cities at 3 population with a bunch of bonuses 'built-in'.

That‘s all nice and everything, but not really useful as most probably, there will be no empty land left. At least let me found a city on the lands of independent people („natives“), but else, why bother with the unit?

So it looks like the late game provides some seriously accelerated City Building and Growth mechanics - the flood of Urbanization and population growth around the world in the 19th and 20th centuries IRL, in other words, seems to be modeled in the game. Whether the game includes all the potential problems as well as benefits from that remains to be seen.

It would be awesome if it does. I doubt it, it gets very complicated very soon after all and there has to be room for improvement later on. But they get points from me just for trying!

On the general topic, I strongly believe that the last two eras „the endgame“ should change up everything. We aren‘t talking of the „hockey stick“ for no reason after all. History here dovetails very nicely with the gameplay needs. So yes, population boom, globalisation, information transfer, nuclear weapons, climate change, they all need to allow some players to catch up fast in the fame game, nearly Mario Kart Style.

 

[Atlas627]

That‘s all nice and everything, but not really useful as most probably, there will be no empty land left. At least let me found a city on the lands of independent people („natives“), but else, why bother with the unit?

Right, so this is another case where the rules/balancing need to be tweaked. I want to be *restricted* to only building adjacent to the city center in Ancient, then adjacent to city-adjacent in Classical, then Hamlets unlock in Medieval and I can build adjacent to those (and maybe adjacent to Hamlet-adjacent, depending on their Region-size balancing), then Early Modern I can build adjacent to Harbors and remote Artisan Quarters (and again, adjacent to Harbor/Artisan-adjacent depending on Region-size balance), then Industrial I can build adjacent to Train Stations (and again with the adjacencies), then Contemporary...I don't know, extend the adjacent to city-adjacent by 2.

The Influence costs at the beginning make it difficult to expand, which is as it should be. Maybe Influence costs need to be even higher so that there is still some empty land by Early Modern.

I recommend Stability decline over time (not uniformly), so that there are actually rebellions and you can lose territory. Empires rise and fall, and the part they gain fame for is how long they last and what they accomplish in the meantime. That also might help with having some empty land.

On the general topic, I strongly believe that the last two eras „the endgame“ should change up everything. We aren‘t talking of the „hockey stick“ for no reason after all. History here dovetails very nicely with the gameplay needs. So yes, population boom, globalisation, information transfer, nuclear weapons, climate change, they all need to allow some players to catch up fast in the fame game, nearly Mario Kart Style.

Absolutely.