enemy with too many vassals

[sirgalahad1313]

Not sure if this has been asked as I searched but without using the proper keywords, it's hard to pinpoint the proper topic. I'm in a game atm where I'm on 1 of 2 continents and the problem is, the other largest civ on my continent (Russia) has the rest of the continent as vassals and there's no way I can win a war against all of them. Might be my fault for being timid early on while I was building my cities/tech and troops. The only reason I think the Russians won't attack me is I'm larger than them and there are no nukes as I got to the U.N. 1st and banished them. Any tips on what I can do if anything?

I had just completed a game where the same thing happened but my enemies had nukes and despite having a huge army, I got trounced by the sheer numbers (+nukes decimating my armies I mean really? 65% of the nukes hit me? and i had no nukes to retaliate as I had no uranium at all pfft). My current game would be a good challenge to better players than me to untangle this mess. I've been trying to drive a wedge between Russia and the vassals to no avail and I'm not sure I can attack the other continent successfully. I suck at this game lol.

 

[Louis the XIV]

Well without nukes it's very hard and boring to play IMO.
My favorite thing in the game is throwing a nuke and watching it explode!
Anyway I have no good strategy for you but the best way to win is by being the first to build around 10 ICBM's and then abolishing Nukes via UN.
So you will be the only player with nukes.
By the way I am not sure but I think this thread belongs in the Strategy sub forum, but then what do I know, I just like clicking the red button and shooting ICBM's into the outer hemisphere

 

[lymond]

Strategy & Tips Forum

My first question to you is do you really want to learn how to play the game. Get better and move up difficulty. I'm assuming you play a lower difficulty..say Noble...so the things you are talking about are irrelevant. I've played this game for over 13 years and I've never built a nuke or had to deal with them. (Well, maybe when I was first playing like you ..ha). Letting an AI vassal your continent and talkin' about nukes is a sign that you have a tremendous amount to learn. Civ IV is about strong early game play, and this is where your focus should be now. So, there's no point addressing your points as they are...again..irrelevant to me and and to learning the game.

My best recommendation is head over to Strategy & Tips forum. Start a shadow game with normal settings (Pangaea, no huts/event, standard size). Also, check out the Noble's Club games as well as several shadow games in process right now. You will learn a lot and totally rethink the way you play the game.

 

[Louis the XIV]

Strategy & Tips Forum

My first question to you is do you really want to learn how to play the game. Get better and move up difficulty. I'm assuming you play a lower difficulty..say Noble...so the things you are talking about are irrelevant. I've played this game for over 13 years and I've never built a nuke or had to deal with them. (Well, maybe when I was first playing like you ..ha). Letting an AI vassal your continent and talkin' about nukes is a sign that you have a tremendous amount to learn. Civ IV is about strong early game play, and this is where your focus should be now. So, there's no point addressing your points as they are...again..irrelevant to me and and to learning the game.

My best recommendation is head over to Strategy & Tips forum. Start a shadow game with normal settings (Pangaea, no huts/event, standard size). Also, check out the Noble's Club games as well as several shadow games in process right now. You will learn a lot and totally rethink the way you play the game.

I usually play on Monarch but it is still very challenging for me. Anyways I haven't played a normal game of Civ 4 for at least 1-2 years, I have only been playing Earth 1000 AD and then when I found out about RFC Dawn of Civilization that's the only mod I play now.
But I don't understand why you wouldn't built nukes? In a game with Russia (especially on pangea) there is no way that the Russians won't get a huge army of about 50-100 troops and be the most dominant power on the continent they spawn, at least that is how it always happened to me.
The only way to defeat that army is by nuking it or built a lot of siege weapons and some troops as well and having a fair battle on the battle field.
But I love playing as Louis XIV and trying to build almost every wonder in the game and winning cultural so I go with the easier option and just built 2 ICBM's and suddenly the huge Russian army is evaporated.
I remember when I just started using WB and I made a scenario in which every civ starts with an Assault Mech and an ICBM!

 

[Ricci]

I would go with a peacefull approach! If you cannot invade and your economy is strong, try and go for a space race against the Russians, win space, it can become a thrilling and impactfull game for you.
As suggested above, there are many ways you can limit your rivals not to become so powerfull in the first place. But in the end it's all about game style.

 

[sirgalahad1313]

I do tend to be very timid in the early going which is no doubt my downfall. My cities are strong and I do have a huge army, just not against 6 ai's. As for nukes ya, I like having them but I hate getting hit by them lol. I checked out the strategies section and found one guide save for noble and with louis(french) which is my favorite, just having issues atm finding the save games since it's under steam. I posed the question there and waiting for an answer.

 

[s.bernbaum]

There are no nukes in my games. I modded them out of the game long ago.

 

[Louis the XIV]

There are no nukes in my games. I modded them out of the game long ago.

I just read this message while I was installing a modcomp that allows Nukes to destroy cities and terrain tiles of the map!
EDIT: I was also looking at an extremely interesting post by Kaitzilla that was posted about 5 years ago when he played a Deity on a huge earthmap, if anyone heard of it and sees this comment please don't tell me if he won or lost! I'm really interested in finding out how his game went.

 

[lymond]

I do tend to be very timid in the early going which is no doubt my downfall. .

It's not about being timid per se, but about learning basic mechanics of the game. If you want to learn, learn from experienced players here. Most guides are outdated so I would not rely on them at all. (There is a new beginner's guide that is very recent at the top of the S&T forum written by an extremely great player...and still a work in progress)

But I don't understand why you wouldn't built nukes? In a game with Russia (especially on pangea) there is no way that the Russians won't get a huge army of about 50-100 troops and be the most dominant power on the continent they spawn, at least that is how it always happened to me.

Keep in mind that it's difficult explaining this game to someone who does his own thing and plays a lot of mods. That is not a criticism ..just an observation. With that said, if you play the vanilla game I can assure you there are an extensive amount of concepts that you need to learn about this game. I don't build nukes because they are simply not a factor in my games. I win long before nukes are a factor...on high difficulties. The scenario the OP is describing? I'm assuming low difficulty? I would have owned the continent early game. Simple as that. Play as you wish..it is a game. But if you want to do something quite interesting, learn how to play the game. The concepts will carry over to mods. (Louis is a good leader by the way. Like all the Frenchies. De Gaulle is one of the best in the game for humans.

 

[6K Man]

Not sure if this has been asked as I searched but without using the proper keywords, it's hard to pinpoint the proper topic. I'm in a game atm where I'm on 1 of 2 continents and the problem is, the other largest civ on my continent (Russia) has the rest of the continent as vassals and there's no way I can win a war against all of them. Might be my fault for being timid early on while I was building my cities/tech and troops. The only reason I think the Russians won't attack me is I'm larger than them and there are no nukes as I got to the U.N. 1st and banished them. Any tips on what I can do if anything?

I had just completed a game where the same thing happened but my enemies had nukes and despite having a huge army, I got trounced by the sheer numbers (+nukes decimating my armies I mean really? 65% of the nukes hit me? and i had no nukes to retaliate as I had no uranium at all pfft). My current game would be a good challenge to better players than me to untangle this mess. I've been trying to drive a wedge between Russia and the vassals to no avail and I'm not sure I can attack the other continent successfully. I suck at this game lol.

Did the other AIs vassal peacefully or forcibly to Russia? If they capitulated, knocking out a few Russian cities and a couple of stacks may induce the vassals to break free.

Don't be intimidated by AI vassals. The AI is terrible at fighting in concert with its vassals. Hammer the Russians and play defense against the others. Unless you're on a very high difficulty level, the vassals won't have enough military to threaten you on their own, individually.

Banning nukes is seldom a good idea for the human player, unless you already have a bunch of them and the AI doesn't.

 

[sirgalahad1313]

righto 6k man. It's worth a try. I have over 40 troops in each city so I'm sure I can muster an offence worthy of making the Russians quake in their booties lol. And yes, all the vassals were beaten to death with an ugly stick by the Russians. If nothing else it sounds like fun even if I lose and is better than looking at the screen drooling.

@lymond, it's not that I don't know how to play, I've used many guides on city building and such, my cities are strong, I beat everyone on the tech tree and I've gotten quite a few cities due to culture revolts, I'm just not aggressive enough when it comes to winning/campaigning in a war victory and that is why I say it's my downfall. Maybe if I attacked a bunch of enemies earlier on and sacrifice a bit on city building.... I was more successful when I was playing on vanilla, vassals weren't an issue and regardless of what era I'm in, I could pick the ai's apart 1 at a time. It's when they gang up on me with vassals in warlords that I have issues but I'm looking for some battle guides to help me there in the strategy section.

 

[lymond]

@lymond, it's not that I don't know how to play, I've used many guides on city building and such, my cities are strong, I beat everyone on the tech tree and I've gotten quite a few cities due to culture revolts, I'm just not aggressive enough when it comes to winning/campaigning in a war victory and that is why I say it's my downfall. Maybe if I attacked a bunch of enemies earlier on and sacrifice a bit on city building.... I was more successful when I was playing on vanilla, vassals weren't an issue and regardless of what era I'm in, I could pick the ai's apart 1 at a time. It's when they gang up on me with vassals in warlords that I have issues but I'm looking for some battle guides to help me there in the strategy section.

Gleaning from what you said in the OP and by what you say here, I can assure you that you don't know how to play. Sorry, but the many of these "guides" are simply wrong and outdated. You talk about city building but I don't know what you mean in context. There's really only one building in the game you need ..the granary. Everything else is situational. So when you talk about "city buiding", I assume you are talking about building buildings. What buildings? You still haven't mentioned what difficulty you are playing.

The fact that you are not more aggressive early on on lower difficulties is representational enough of lack of knowledge. But putting that aside, there a several key concepts and guidelines about this game that I feel certain you are not aware of (or maybe have some awareness but don't really execute them properly), and would totally change your perspective on the game. We would not even be having conversations about nukes and Russians... Keep in mind that I'm not trying to be critical here, but rather just stating the obvious based on my experience. And furthermore, I'm goading you to try to learn the game...ever in S&T.

Your issues right now are not associated with warfare or battle guides. We can show you how to wage war in a shadow game easy enough, once you get to a point where that concept is relevant.

 

[6K Man]

@sirgalahad1313 : My 2 cents, as always: Play the game you want to play.

Everything lymond says is correct, but you don't have to play that way. If you want to build lots of infrastructure, do it. It's not optimal play, and you'll struggle at higher difficulty levels, but that may not be a big deal for you. Many people are happy playing with nonstandard settings and mods, on less than the highest difficulty levels. I'm one of them.

So, by all means, you can learn how to win the game before gunpowder, over in S&T. Or if you're enjoying your current game, you can build a poop-tonne of Tanks, Bombers and Mobile Artillery and go give Stalin (or Cathy or Peter) a bloody nose.

 

[Louis the XIV]

@sirgalahad1313 : My 2 cents, as always: Play the game you want to play.

Everything lymond says is correct, but you don't have to play that way. If you want to build lots of infrastructure, do it. It's not optimal play, and you'll struggle at higher difficulty levels, but that may not be a big deal for you. Many people are happy playing with nonstandard settings and mods, on less than the highest difficulty levels. I'm one of them.

So, by all means, you can learn how to win the game before gunpowder, over in S&T. Or if you're enjoying your current game, you can build a poop-tonne of Tanks, Bombers and Mobile Artillery and go give Stalin (or Cathy or Peter) a bloody nose.

I totally agree! Good luck @sirgalahad1313 , and if you ever feel like you will might lose, remember that everyone here is supporting you!

 

[s.bernbaum]

sirgalahad1313:

There is nothing wrong with being a builder and seeking to have large prosperous cities, planning on a peaceful victory of Space, Political, or Cultural, or even a late game military victory. Lymond and most of the others are warriors not builders. No offense or criticism meant here, just a description of the options. They regard CIV as mainly a war game and seek early victories as such. Most of the folks here fall into that category these days. There are still a few of us builders around though. I, for example, usually go for a peaceful victory condition. I'll build up loads of large cities and apply cultural pressures on the neighbors to flip their cities, all the while building up a big enough military so that no matter how much I may tick off the AIs they mostly don't dare attack me, but if they do they are toast. Now and then I decide to go for a late military victory. Once in a blue moon, I will go for an early military victory. However, for me, the fun part of the game is building a large empire with large cities over a long period. So, I usually play marathon on huge maps. If you like playing as a builder go for it. If you prefer late military victories after building for a long time that works well too. If, on the other hand, you want earlier military victories then do take the advice of Lymond and the other warriors.