Mistfit
Deity
Why don't you tell usEl Justo said:
Epic Mod Ideas: Compilation of Suggestions
- Thread starter Colonel Kraken
- Start date
I haven't scrolled back to the post in question but I'm assuming "ATR" is "All Terrain as Roads".
-Oz
-Oz
El Justo
Deity
you stinkerMistfit said:Why don't you tell us
stats for a "Land Mine" are always hard to figure.
i'd figure that they'd be immobile, invisible, cheap to build or autoproduced, and maybe -HP. i dunno though.
airdropping them seems a little weird. if i can remember correctly, i tried a set-up where a foot unit could transport it but we all know how the AI would treat this.
however, the vietnam thingie i'm working on is being made specifically w/ MP/PBEM in mind so the AI is really a non-issue.
what would you guys use for specs on a "Land Mine" unit?
I have an idea for the land mines, but it may not work as I've never tried this. 0 attack, high defense, and invisible. Make their HP really low and choose cruise missile and lethal land bombardment. Make sure they can't bombard and have zone of control. What I'm hoping would happen would be that when the AI walks past the land mine, it would detonate and damage or destroy the enemy. If the land mine is attacked, it may or may not do a lot of damage to the enemy (I guess it would be like the enemy finding it if it didn't do damage, sounds accurate enough to me.) The land mine could not attack directly. Of course, the AI may have no idea how to use this, so if so, forget this idea.
WildWeazel
Going Dutch
@Viper, Justo
Viper was on the right track- I also tried high attack and ZOC instead of bombard, but then it did nothing when the other unit actually stepped onto the tile, only passed it. This seemed a little too strange. Keep in mind the rules for defensive bombardment: ONE free shot, IF the tile is being defended by a combat unit (which may or may not be the bombarding unit. So you could make mines that fire off a free shot automatically and die (I think- I didn't test that combination), but then you would have to guard the tile for it to work. That seems odd too, although I think in this case friendly units could set off the mines too. My version allows you to choose when to go off, which may not be the most accurate, but overall it's the best I've come up with because the mines can be on their own, only work once, and only detonate when a unit is on their tile. I don't think airdropping would seem wierd as long as there is no parachute animation
It represents transporting the mines to their destination and leaving them there.
There is no way to make the AI use any type of unit remotely resembling a land mine in a way that makes any sense. This is for human players only. In my case, a multiplayer-centric mod.Weasel Op said:
Viper was on the right track- I also tried high attack and ZOC instead of bombard, but then it did nothing when the other unit actually stepped onto the tile, only passed it. This seemed a little too strange. Keep in mind the rules for defensive bombardment: ONE free shot, IF the tile is being defended by a combat unit (which may or may not be the bombarding unit. So you could make mines that fire off a free shot automatically and die (I think- I didn't test that combination), but then you would have to guard the tile for it to work. That seems odd too, although I think in this case friendly units could set off the mines too. My version allows you to choose when to go off, which may not be the most accurate, but overall it's the best I've come up with because the mines can be on their own, only work once, and only detonate when a unit is on their tile. I don't think airdropping would seem wierd as long as there is no parachute animation
It represents transporting the mines to their destination and leaving them there.
El Justo
Deity
viper & weasel op,
i like those ideas. however, the cruise missile flag...if a "Land Mine" unit has this, does it expend itself after its turn? would a D # for them ensure that the "Land Mine" unit would 'put up a fight' instead of simply being 'captured' (like when a cruise missile is caught in a city)?
i like those ideas. however, the cruise missile flag...if a "Land Mine" unit has this, does it expend itself after its turn? would a D # for them ensure that the "Land Mine" unit would 'put up a fight' instead of simply being 'captured' (like when a cruise missile is caught in a city)?
WildWeazel
Going Dutch
In my model, yes, the land mine is essentially an immobile cruise missile. I did some more testing and for some reason, they don't use their defensive bombard even if they have defense (unless of course another unit is defending the tile). So my idea about the free shot and dying won't work. It has to be active bombardment. They can't be captured if they have HN, that's what allows them to wait until the unit is on top of them to bombard.
El Justo
Deity
HN is bad news for a "Land Mine" unit b/c everyone will hunt them down w/ a vengance...
however, what if you gave it ZOC, a mediocre D #, 1 A, immobile, invisible, a huge bombardment # (well, not too big but you get the idea), limited ROF (1 or 2) and 0 range on the bombardment?????
in practice, these little buggers could be pre-placed, air-dropped or transported to their destination and upon encroachment of an enmy upon its tile, it would fire off the big ZOC bombard and then engage in the battle which it'll most likely lose b/c of it's lower D #'s in comparison to the attacking (enemy) unit. thus, it'd be expended after it inflicts some damage. can it work though?
however, what if you gave it ZOC, a mediocre D #, 1 A, immobile, invisible, a huge bombardment # (well, not too big but you get the idea), limited ROF (1 or 2) and 0 range on the bombardment?????
in practice, these little buggers could be pre-placed, air-dropped or transported to their destination and upon encroachment of an enmy upon its tile, it would fire off the big ZOC bombard and then engage in the battle which it'll most likely lose b/c of it's lower D #'s in comparison to the attacking (enemy) unit. thus, it'd be expended after it inflicts some damage. can it work though?
El Justo said:
"0" range on the bombardment = defensive bombard only = ROF of "1".
-Oz
El Justo
Deity
oh yes. you're right...what would you suggest Sir Oz?ozymandias said:
El Justo said:oh yes. you're right...what would you suggest Sir Oz?
Keep in mind that I play almost always on huge world maps -- that having been said, ZOC overrates what the mine effect actually is. And invisibile could have the wrong party blundering into them; I would also point out that, on a strategic scale, minefield locations like the Korean DMZ are well known.
So I would use 0 AF, DF equivalent to armor of the period, healthy range 0 bombard -- in short, basically a static defense unit, immobile and airdroppable for deployment purposes.
Best,
Oz
WildWeazel
Going Dutch
Hence the "Invisible" flagEl Justo said:
Also remember that this is not meant for AI and hopefully human players wouldn't be that stupid anyway.ZOC doesn't work when the unit's tile is entered, only passed by- normal units wouldn't need to use it when being attacked.
And this is inaccurate how?
I would rather have them always blow up when any unit enters the tile (except the owner if possible), but I haven't found the right settings to do that yet. As it is, you have to click "bombard" to set it off. I guess it's good for gameplay purposes.edit: If you use them preplaced and make them barbs with arty strategy flag, the AI *might* be smart enough to use them on whoever wandered into the tile. But never underestimate the power of Artificial Stupidity.
edit2: ozy's setup would work too, but it defensive bombard can only take 1 HP, and having actual defense turns it into a real battle, complete with attack animations and the possibilty of the mine surviving. I've been through all the scenarios, and mine seems to be the most accurate possibilty, unless I can find a combination to make the cruise missile aspect automatic, which I don't think is possible.
I may make a new version of my mod, I'm still assembling ideas, making unit lines, etc.
I have an idea I would like to discuss here.
I don't link the current resource system, because there's to much stress on the strategical resource.
If you need iron and oil to build tanks, and have neither then you cannot build tank at all... The German panzers kicked some ass during WWII, even if they had very little oil.
And I hate when I have NO iron, the AI has some, and you are so vulnerable.
So I want to balance it a bit, give an advantage to people with resources, but not so big.
The idea is to introduce two size of units.
With iron and oil, you can build "Armored Division", with an A/D/M 12/8/3, and 4 HP.
Without these resources, you can build "Armored regiment", with an A/D/M 10/7/3, and only 2 HP. And this unit will cost almost as much as the division.
Units would have the same graphics.
I have an idea I would like to discuss here.
I don't link the current resource system, because there's to much stress on the strategical resource.
If you need iron and oil to build tanks, and have neither then you cannot build tank at all... The German panzers kicked some ass during WWII, even if they had very little oil.
And I hate when I have NO iron, the AI has some, and you are so vulnerable.
So I want to balance it a bit, give an advantage to people with resources, but not so big.
The idea is to introduce two size of units.
With iron and oil, you can build "Armored Division", with an A/D/M 12/8/3, and 4 HP.
Without these resources, you can build "Armored regiment", with an A/D/M 10/7/3, and only 2 HP. And this unit will cost almost as much as the division.
Units would have the same graphics.
@ Steph -- I like your idea. Your point about, e.g., German "ersatz" oil is well taken.
I suppose it would be ideal to add some sort of signifier for the unit size (like the NATO standard "XX" for division and "III" for regiment) but it'd probably be too unwieldy at Civ scale.
-Oz
I suppose it would be ideal to add some sort of signifier for the unit size (like the NATO standard "XX" for division and "III" for regiment) but it'd probably be too unwieldy at Civ scale.
-Oz
Iztvan
the Terrible
I have had some similar ideas, revolving around WW2 Germany and oil and Iron deposits and iron age & medieval units.
This can be applied to all kind of strategic resources, but let's take the example of Oil. Make 3 resources that are variants of Oil: Small, Large and Offshore Oil deposit.
Large Oil deposit works like the ordinary oil resource today, maybe a little less common to compensate for the other two.
Small Oil deposit works like this:
If a city has it within city radius, it can build:
* "Oil power plant 1" that works just like the regular oil power plant. This allows for a small oil deposit, big enough for a city, but not enough to supply an empire.
* "Airport 2", similarly.
If a city has Small Oil deposit in its strategic resource box (and lacks Big Oil deposit), it can build:
* Light tank (say, 12-6-2, 80s)
* Fighter
* Light bomber (a crappy version of the Bomber)
* Destroyer
* and maybe Cruiser, but definately not Battleship or Carrier.
If it has Offshore Oil in city radius, discovered at miniaturization (same as Offshore platform), it can build:
* Offshore platform (offshore oil in city radius now required for offshore platform)
* Oil power plant 2
The same reasoning could be made for Iron and Coal, where "Big" deposits of both would be required to make railroads, but where small resources within city radius would allow "Factory 2". As small/big resources could come in different combos, provisions would have to be made for Big Coal in stratbox/small iron in radius, etc...
Small iron would be available with ironworking, and would required for iron-units during the ancient/medieval era, while Big Iron deposit would be discovered in the early industrialo era (say, RailRoads), and would represent the much bigger, lower quality iron ore that could be used with the new methods invented in that period.
This is similar to how RaR handles food bonus resources that appear in different ages to simulate improved agriculture (since Civ3 only allows for ine level of Irr).
This can be applied to all kind of strategic resources, but let's take the example of Oil. Make 3 resources that are variants of Oil: Small, Large and Offshore Oil deposit.
Large Oil deposit works like the ordinary oil resource today, maybe a little less common to compensate for the other two.
Small Oil deposit works like this:
If a city has it within city radius, it can build:
* "Oil power plant 1" that works just like the regular oil power plant. This allows for a small oil deposit, big enough for a city, but not enough to supply an empire.
* "Airport 2", similarly.
If a city has Small Oil deposit in its strategic resource box (and lacks Big Oil deposit), it can build:
* Light tank (say, 12-6-2, 80s)
* Fighter
* Light bomber (a crappy version of the Bomber)
* Destroyer
* and maybe Cruiser, but definately not Battleship or Carrier.
If it has Offshore Oil in city radius, discovered at miniaturization (same as Offshore platform), it can build:
* Offshore platform (offshore oil in city radius now required for offshore platform)
* Oil power plant 2
The same reasoning could be made for Iron and Coal, where "Big" deposits of both would be required to make railroads, but where small resources within city radius would allow "Factory 2". As small/big resources could come in different combos, provisions would have to be made for Big Coal in stratbox/small iron in radius, etc...
Small iron would be available with ironworking, and would required for iron-units during the ancient/medieval era, while Big Iron deposit would be discovered in the early industrialo era (say, RailRoads), and would represent the much bigger, lower quality iron ore that could be used with the new methods invented in that period.
This is similar to how RaR handles food bonus resources that appear in different ages to simulate improved agriculture (since Civ3 only allows for ine level of Irr).
I don't think it works, because there is a limitation to the number of resources that can appear on the map.
My solution is to give an advantage to the few nation who can secure a major source of iron or oil, without making the other completly screwed
My solution is to give an advantage to the few nation who can secure a major source of iron or oil, without making the other completly screwed
Iztvan
the Terrible
C3C has 26 resources, and a few more can definately be added (the RaR mod has 52 resources!), and some silly resources can be removed (saltpeter for one...) to make room for others.
But, sure. Keeping the resources more or less as they are and supplying low-quality, resource-free units works equaly fine, just a matter of taste. Or why not do both!
But, sure. Keeping the resources more or less as they are and supplying low-quality, resource-free units works equaly fine, just a matter of taste. Or why not do both!
WildWeazel
Going Dutch
@Iztvan: dude, just wait for SSS
clamel
Prince
- Joined
- May 26, 2011
- Messages
- 529
Now I am going to hang out my head so you all can have a swing at it.
This is necro big time to wake a thread from the very deep dungeons.
However I cant´t see any links to it in any of the sticky threads on this forum (I might be blind). I came across it looking for stuff on modding.
It does IMHO include some nice tips on modding and on how to go about it.
Surely a lot of new info has come up since does old days, but since I wasn´t present back then lots of stuff have giving me a huge AHA, and even that´s what I was looking for....
Perhaps some folks like me can gain some experience in what´s in this thread and may all of you veterans keep your scolding to a minimum, please.
Perhaps the thread is even valuable enough to make it sticky.
That's for the brilliant minds that administrate this forum.
This is necro big time to wake a thread from the very deep dungeons.
However I cant´t see any links to it in any of the sticky threads on this forum (I might be blind). I came across it looking for stuff on modding.
It does IMHO include some nice tips on modding and on how to go about it.
Surely a lot of new info has come up since does old days, but since I wasn´t present back then lots of stuff have giving me a huge AHA, and even that´s what I was looking for....
Perhaps some folks like me can gain some experience in what´s in this thread and may all of you veterans keep your scolding to a minimum, please.
Perhaps the thread is even valuable enough to make it sticky.
That's for the brilliant minds that administrate this forum.
Similar threads
