Ethiopia or Abyssinia?

[Greywulf]

Should Ethiopia (as named in Civ V) be called Abyssinia in Civ VI? (Assuming the add this civ into the game...and they really should)

I got thinking about it after watching this Youtube video:

The video explains the origins and meanings of these two names, and how both are used. What are your thoughts? Do you think it matters? Do you think this could be controversial?
Personally, I've typically called them Ethiopia, and only rarely called them Abyssinia. I am a lot more used to the name Ethiopia, however I didn't know what these two names meant. I might try to use Abyssinia more often now, as its meaning seems more appealing to me.

 

[Uberfrog]

It seems that Ethiopia is the preferred term in the country itself, and has been since the Aksumite Empire. "Abyssinia" seems only ever to have been a name used by Europeans to refer to the country, and nowadays (at least to my British ears) has a sort of old-fashioned colonial ring to it. I don't think the Ethiopian Empire ever referred to itself by that name.

 

[Greywulf]

It seems that Ethiopia is the preferred term in the country itself, and has been since the Aksumite Empire. "Abyssinia" seems only ever to have been a name used by Europeans to refer to the country, and nowadays (at least to my British ears) has a sort of old-fashioned colonial ring to it. I don't think the Ethiopian Empire ever referred to itself by that name.

Ok, but to be fair, they were never colonized during Europe's grab for Africa ~ although Europe did try. They managed to successfully defend themselves against colonialism, so I'm not sure that the "old-fashioned colonial ring to it" makes complete sense in this case. It is a fair call if Ethiopians themselves prefer to be called Ethiopia, but it does seem odd to me if it really does mean something like "burnt face" in reference to their darker skin complexion...could be controversial because of that. Abyssinia, on the other hand, has a more inclusive meaning to it. Both names do sound nice at least.

 

[Uberfrog]

Ok, but to be fair, they were never colonized during Europe's grab for Africa ~ although Europe did try. They managed to successfully defend themselves against colonialism, so I'm not sure that the "old-fashioned colonial ring to it" makes complete sense in this case.

Oh, I understand. To clarify, I mean the term harks back to what it was known as in those days, much like “Ceylon” or Kenya pronounced as “Keenya”. Even if Ethiopia was never itself colonised, it seems a very old-fashioned way to refer to it reminiscent of imperial times.

I understand that to modern ears the Αίθιοπία etymology sounds questionable, but I think it’s now quite removed from its ancient meaning. I don’t think there’s any controversy there at all.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Ethiopia seems to be the name preferred by Ethiopians themselves nowadays and since at least the 13th century.
It is also the name most people are familiar with nowadays so there doesn't seem any reason to call it anything else, unlike Iran/Persia.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

From a marketing standpoint most people would want to play as familiar Ethiopia, as it has been called the past 2 games, even if Abbysinia is the same place.

 

[Greywulf]

Oh, I understand. To clarify, I mean the term harks back to what it was known as in those days, much like “Ceylon” or Kenya pronounced as “Keenya”. Even if Ethiopia was never itself colonised, it seems a very old-fashioned way to refer to it reminiscent of imperial times.

I understand that to modern ears the Αίθιοπία etymology sounds questionable, but I think it’s now quite removed from its ancient meaning. I don’t think there’s any controversy there at all.

Abyssinia is still a name used for Ethiopia, although not as commonly as Ethiopia. At any rate, it's not inherently a colonial term for the country.

Ethiopia seems to be the name preferred by Ethiopians themselves nowadays and since at least the 13th century.
It is also the name most people are familiar with nowadays so there doesn't seem any reason to call it anything else, unlike Iran/Persia.

I think that is the best argument in favor of using Ethiopia...it's what they call themselves. If they are happy with it, then it's fine.

I'm curious how Ethiopians feel about the term Abyssinia, and if they use that term as well?

Ironically, both names are not of Ethiopian origin, so one would think they would prefer a term that they themselves came up with...That's usually the case anyway.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Abyssinia is still a name used for Ethiopia, although not as commonly as Ethiopia. At any rate, it's not inherently a colonial term for the country.


I think that is the best argument in favor of using Ethiopia...it's what they call themselves. If they are happy with it, then it's fine.

I'm curious how Ethiopians feel about the term Abyssinia, and if they use that term as well?

Ironically, both names are not of Ethiopian origin, so one would think they would prefer a term that they themselves came up with...That's usually the case anyway.

From what I've read Abyssinia is still used at least for things like business names. However it comes from either the Arabic habash or Amharic hbsh and is more commonly used and more acceptable in northern Ethiopia where the Amhara come from.
If thats correct and Ethiopia is more acceptable to the other ethnic groups whilst still being acceptable to the Amhara it would seem better to use Ethiopia.
But thats only using information available with a google search so take it with a pinch of salt.

 

[Patine]

From what I've read Abyssinia is still used at least for things like business names. However it comes from either the Arabic habash or Amharic hbsh and is more commonly used and more acceptable in northern Ethiopia where the Amhara come from.
If thats correct and Ethiopia is more acceptable to the other ethnic groups whilst still being acceptable to the Amhara it would seem better to use Ethiopia.
But thats only using information available with a google search so take it with a pinch of salt.

If Menelik II or earlier is your leader, I'd say Abyssinia. If Haile Selassie, Mengistu Mariam, or Meles Zenawi are your leader, THEN definitely Ethiopia. Iyasu V and Zewditu could be arguably either.

 

[AmazonQueen]

If Menelik II or earlier is your leader, I'd say Abyssinia. If Haile Selassie, Mengistu Mariam, or Meles Zenawi are your leader, THEN definitely Ethiopia. Iyasu V and Zewditu could be arguably either.

Why prefer Abyssinia for Menelik II? As far as I can see he was known as Emperor of Ethiopia.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Well as far as I can tell Abyssinia is a named used to denote the name of the empire from 1270 to 1974. In that case the name Ethiopia is fine as it represents the whole history of the region. I want an Axum era leader anyway, but still call it Ethiopia.

 

[Patine]

Well as far as I can tell Abyssinia is a named used to denote the name of the empire from 1270 to 1974. In that case the name Ethiopia is fine as it represents the whole history of the region. I want an Axum era leader anyway, but still call it Ethiopia.

From what I can gather, Axum seems to be founded as a colony of pre-Islamic Arabs from Sheba (or Saba'a) in Yemen and heavily under the influence of Egyptian traders and Israelite theology. I'm not sure they were that much a unique culture and civilization anywhere like what we know them and they came to be, and were known as, in the Zagwe and RESTORED Solomonic Dynasty and onwards. And, besides, hard information on Axum (outside what I just said), and it's neighbours, Punt and Kush, is VERY sparse indeed and not much to build on compared to later ages.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

From what I can gather, Axum seems to be founded as a colony of pre-Islamic Arabs from Sheba (or Saba'a) in Yemen and heavily under the influence of Egyptian traders and Israelite theology. I'm not sure they were that much a unique culture and civilization anywhere like what we know them and they came to be, and were known as, in the Zagwe and RESTORED Solomonic Dynasty and onwards. And, besides, hard information on Axum (outside what I just said), and it's neighbours, Punt and Kush, is VERY sparse indeed and not much to build on compared to later ages.

Well my hope is Ezana becomes the leader giving bonuses to finding a religion first and establishing it throughout his empire as a state religion. He did that with Christianity not long after Armenia became the first Christian kingdom. Other than that Ethiopia can definitely have a late game unit and later abilities. That's the direction I want Firaxis to go at least. Even if we don't have that much info we did get Nubia a.k.a Kush.

 

[Patine]

Well my hope is Ezana becomes the leader giving bonuses to finding a religion first and establishing it throughout his empire as a state religion. He did that with Christianity not long after Armenia became the first Christian kingdom. Other than that Ethiopia can definitely have a late game unit and later abilities. That's the direction I want Firaxis to go at least. Even if we don't have that much info we did get Nubia a.k.a Kush.

I would prefer Yakub, Menelik (I or II), Haile Selassie, or even Zenawi (since he passed away a few years ago, that disqualifier's off the block). Founding a religion in your nation is a very commendable achievement, but I feel there are Ethiopian leaders who have done so much more and are more eminently worthy, all-in-all.

 

[Greywulf]

Well as far as I can tell Abyssinia is a named used to denote the name of the empire from 1270 to 1974. In that case the name Ethiopia is fine as it represents the whole history of the region. I want an Axum era leader anyway, but still call it Ethiopia.

If the name "Ethiopia" is of Greek origin, then I don't think it would represent the whole history of the region.

 

[Patine]

If the name "Ethiopia" is of Greek origin, then I don't think it would represent the whole history of the region.

The term has been used endonymally in the nation since at least the days of Haile Selassie, arguably before. I believe it went through several different names (and, at times, regional names, in periods it lacked political unity) in it's two-millennium or so recorded history. There is, I'm afraid, no one name you could say "would represent the whole history of the region."

 

[AmazonQueen]

Neither Ethiopia or Abyssinia are of Ethiopian origin. Aksum is perhaps the most viable alternative name but certainly doesn't represent the whole history of the region.

 

[Patine]

Neither Ethiopia or Abyssinia are of Ethiopian origin. Aksum is perhaps the most viable alternative name but certainly doesn't represent the whole history of the region.

Using "Aksum" for all Ethiopia and it's history would be like using "Sumer" for the whole region and history of Iraq, or "Mede" or "Elam," for the whole region and history of Iran, or "Shang," for the whole region and history of China, frankly.

 

[Greywulf]

The term has been used endonymally in the nation since at least the days of Haile Selassie, arguably before. I believe it went through several different names (and, at times, regional names, in periods it lacked political unity) in it's two-millennium or so recorded history. There is, I'm afraid, no one name you could say "would represent the whole history of the region."

Haile Selassie was a relatively modern leader of the country, and his last days were in 1930. Before him, would Abyssinia have been the preferred or common title by Ethiopians?
But you are right, no name would represent the whole history of the region. I'm curious as to which name would come closest to that however.

Neither Ethiopia or Abyssinia are of Ethiopian origin. Aksum is perhaps the most viable alternative name but certainly doesn't represent the whole history of the region.

Abyssinia is much closer out of the two in that regard, apparently being some combination of Arabic and Amharic (Amharic being the official language of Ethiopia).

 

[Patine]

Haile Selassie was a relatively modern leader of the country, and his last days were in 1930. Before him, would Abyssinia have been the preferred or common title by Ethiopians?
But you are right, no name would represent the whole history of the region. I'm curious as to which name would come closest to that however.



Abyssinia is much closer out of the two in that regard, apparently being some combination of Arabic and Amharic (Amharic being the official language of Ethiopia).

I recall reading some years ago, in a Time magazine in a doctor's waiting room, that a poll of Ethiopian citizens conducted during the government of Meles Zenawi (who led the coalition that overthrew Mengistu Mariam's one-party dictatorship in 1994, which itself overthrew Haile Selassie's Empire of Ethiopia in 1974, and Zenawi established a federal, SOMEWHAT democratic republic with him as Prime Minister), who died in 2012, of several names that each common citizen of the country preferred their country be called, that "Ethiopia" got a plurality of support in the poll.