[NFP] Ethiopia Update Discussion Thread

[Thenewwwguy]

Yes, that seems the most interesting change. But do you understand how it will work exactly? I just don't seem to get it. 'envoy bonuses directly tied to those buildings' - do they mean T1&2 buildings will no more be enhanced via envoys?
DQ buildings will double or even triple influence generation, (looks like the Charismatic Leader card will lose significantly in weight) and there will be much more envoys to send around. But where those 3 and 6 envoy bonuses will go exactly?

i think we’ll understand it better soon but it would appear to streamline the game significantly

also, Russia with voidsingers looks broken

 

[bite]

Yes, that seems the most interesting change. But do you understand how it will work exactly? I just don't seem to get it. 'envoy bonuses directly tied to those buildings' - do they mean T1&2 buildings will no more be enhanced via envoys?
DQ buildings will double or even triple influence generation, (looks like the Charismatic Leader card will lose significantly in weight) and there will be much more envoys to send around. But where those 3 and 6 envoy bonuses will go exactly?

I think it is that you need the building to unlock the bonuses (ie faith) which means it won't be luck of spawning next to a couple of religious city states to get you that early pantheon

 

[bengalryan9]

I just want to pat myself on the back for making a thread two months ago saying that this is exactly what they were going to do with Teddy. Way to go, me!

Now the big question is what happens to people who didn't get the New Frontier Pass? Do they keep the "old" Teddy (with Roosevelt Corollary), or do they get "Bull Moose" Teddy and lose Rough Riders and that combat strength bonus altogether?

 

[Thenewwwguy]

ethiopia’s civ ability seems like a faith mali, just on first thougjt

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

i think we’ll understand it better soon but it would appear to streamline the game significantly

also, Russia with voidsingers looks broken

Fabricate Scandal spy mission should now target the DQuarter, if I read things right. In the DQ description, it says spies function at 2 lvls below normal if targeting this district or adjacent districts, meaning there must be something spies can do to that district. Considering envoys are now tied to this district, I'm not surprised if they change the mission and make it target the DQ instead of directly CSs.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

also, why did you write boyar coleridge next to the vampire thing? are the vampires named? is that a name of a historical ‘vampire’ or a literary one?

Interesting. Boyars were high members of the feudal ruling class in Slavic speaking countries including Romania.
Coleridge might be a reference to Samuel Taylor Coleridge, a poet, who was friends with Mary Shelley who wrote gothic literature like Frankenstein.

 

[fy00sh]

Also of note, it took two tries to get a relic. So, maybe it's a random chance.

The first one has two charges when used and the second one had one charge when used so it might just be granted when you use up all the charges on the unit

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

ethiopia’s civ ability seems like a faith mali, just on first thougjt

That is what I thought at first, but someone above pointed out that the ability to buy theater square buildings could come from Jesuit Education and they just wanted to demonstrate the extra faith Ethiopia had.

 

[Jewelrunna]

You said the new district made the diplomacy game "obtuse" more than once, mind elaborating further on that, because calling it something without any explanation or evidence doesn't make it so. Envoy bonuses now tied to 1 district, if anything, makes the game easier to digest for newer players, since it is more streamlined to tie this to 1 district rather than 6 different districts for 6 different types of CSs, so how exactly is it "obtuse" or "complicating diplomacy"?. Sure, people can dislike fantasy theme of certain elements, but when it comes to gameplay, surprisingly you actually need to play the game to know if something is off or not. Complaining even before knowing what exactly something does is a classic move whenever something new is announced.

The thread seemed to get split by the mods between the old Frontier Pass discussion thread and this one here, so I'm now making this argument in two different threads. But I'll copy and paste my statement here.

Perhaps I'm not getting my point across as clearly as I'd like. I'm not saying this isn't a big change, because it is. What I'm trying to say is that it's a big change that doesn't add much to the game and instead serves to make it more cumbersome.

By their wording, all envoy yields are now going to be tied to this one district. Now, in the metagame in Civ VI as it stands, there's going to be three districts you have in all your cities: Campus, Theater Square, and Commercial Hub/Harbor. Maybe if you're playing a Dom or Religion game, you get a Holy Site or Encampment as a replacement for one of those. Assuming you have a city with 10 pop, which is a reasonable estimate for the mid-game in Civ VI, you can fit four districts in it. Early on, you'll probably only have room for three (7 pop). You'll also need to find room for Industrial Zones in some of those cities, and one of your cities you'll also need to make room for the Government Plaza.

Do you see the problem here? It's not just that all of those yields are getting moved to the Diplomatic Quarter, it's that the Diplomatic Quarter itself will be a massive opportunity cost for one of your core districts. The previous system was far more elegant in its execution: the yields were tied to the associated district. If you wanna befriend a bunch of scientific City States, you just need to have Campuses (which you already will, because you're playing a scientific game). Now, to reap the benefits of those City-States, you have to spend part of your District cap in your cities on a Diplomatic Quarter.

These are entirely first impressions, yes. But if you've played the game for a few years, you can get a pretty decent handle on how changes might affect the game. Obviously, yes, you do need to get your hands on the game to really feel the changes, but you can make educated guesses about how the new systems will work, and from just first impressions, I think the old system was better.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

That is what I thought at first, but someone above pointed out that the ability to buy theater square buildings could come from Jesuit Education and they just wanted to demonstrate the extra faith Ethiopia had.

Unless Ethiopia can only buy theater square buildings with faith which I could also see if they want to focus on a cultural victory, in addition to the other normal faith purchases.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

There are so many cool real life secret societies. Don't we have enough magical games on this planet? What could go wrong if they included Order of Assassins instead? Or Maffia? Illuminati? Skull and Bones? Templars? White Lotus? Yakuza? Why do the people think that Vampires are way cooler than any of the historical secret societies?

Yeah, I would have preferred those secret societies instead of the ones we got.

 

[UWHabs]

My first take:
-agreed with most people, secret societies had be intrigued until they brought out the vampires. I assume I'll give it a shot, but it just feels, ugh, again, a little too far out for what I'd want.
-Diplo quarter should be interesting. Being another "one per empire" now makes you have to debate more in placement. Given that it's like a counter-espionage spy on its own, ideally you want to make sure your spaceport and commerce hubs are next to it, but gotta decide when you go to build it. Still not sure what they mean by envoy bonuses are tied to it - whether that means removing the free envoys from the civics tree, or the influence per turn from governments, or whether they actually move the city-state envoy bonuses to this new quarter (so maybe at 1 it's +2 in the DQ, at 3 it's +2 in the first building, at 6 +2 in the 2nd building). Doing that would seriously nerf city-states, but it would balance things out a little.

I guess we'll have to see when the patch notes come to know the full scope. I'm assuming the Ethiopia first look will be Thursday, then maybe a live stream next week and the patch on the 23rd?

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

Ethiopia UI:

must be built on hills

 

[bite]

Yeah, I would have preferred those secret societies instead of the ones we got.

Given how the internet is atm, it is probably better that they didn't

 

[SupremacyKing2]

, or whether they actually move the city-state envoy bonuses to this new quarter (so maybe at 1 it's +2 in the DQ, at 3 it's +2 in the first building, at 6 +2 in the 2nd building). Doing that would seriously nerf city-states, but it would balance things out a little.

My interpretation is that City-state bonuses now go to the city with the diplomatic quarter.

 

[Lord Lakely]

So the four secret societies they added were Illumunati, Freemasons, Lovecraftians and Vampires.

Works for me. The modes were always an extra feature and ahistorical, so sure, I'll take it. I would recommend that the devs make a fantasy-themed game though - they clearly have the ideas for it, even if it doesn't fully fit into civ.

Totally chuffed with the choice for Menelik II and and the Beite (Rock-Hewn-Church) tile improvement. Extra Faith from Internaitonal Trade Routes seems rather dull though, hopefully the actual ability does a little bit more.

 

[Kwami]

My interpretation is that City-state bonuses now go to the city with the diplomatic quarter.

That would be a massive nerf to city-state bonuses, then.

 

[Dreadnought]

Looks like Civ has gone completely off the rails, but I kind of like it. Maybe they've felt the pressure from Paradox or Humankind and realize they can no longer compete in the historic game market. This is an interesting shift from the series that used to be the staple of the historic gaming genre, but it is what it is.

I do understand the complaints of people that want a more historic game, though. It doesn't matter that these things can be shut off -- what matters is that the developers are devoting their focus and resources to these fantasy elements instead of adding more historically focused additions to the game.

Like I've said, I am OK with the changes, but I have reached the understanding at this point to the fact that Civ is more of a boardgame now rather than a historic strategy game.

 

[Uberfrog]

I think it is that you need the building to unlock the bonuses (ie faith) which means it won't be luck of spawning next to a couple of religious city states to get you that early pantheon

I suspect the 1 envoy bonus will not depend on the district (which won’t be available til later), or else it will disincentivise early exploration too much.

 

[bite]

I suspect the 1 envoy bonus will not depend on the district (which won’t be available til later), or else it will disincentivise early exploration too much.

I've asked the Devs on Twitter for a clarification so we'll see