European Berzerkers, Take 2

[Datsekkar]

Looks like I went into the trap of historians, always looking into the past and thus forgetting the present… Sorry for the lack of military intelligence. I won’t have access to PTW until tomorrow, but anyone, please post a picture ASAP!

Korea has two sources of Iron. One is next to the capital. So we can’t deny them iron with the bridgehead. The other source is accessible from sea, but is south. The question is then, do WE need IRON? Or do we hurt Korea more by establishing the bridgehead amongst the wine on their northern coast, and hopefully taking two of their food-rich cities. This is also the part of Korea closest to our shores.

I think the last, as we do not need iron for the berserk upgrade and we’ll need to make it with spears, cats and archers anyway. Utilising the iron is quite a logistic challenge including rushing barracks and shipping a lot of warriors before we see any swords on our side…

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

I'd like to be able to upgrade Spears to Pikes for the bridgehead.

 

[Datsekkar]

@Killer: True, if we wait until they are available... Which they might of course be by the time we have produced enough units…

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

well, we certainly can change the invasion place even at the last second depending on what we ahve

 

[Datsekkar]

@Killer: Of course, our longships are feared because of their ability to suddenly appear out of the blue by surprise when least expected

 

[jack merchant]

Great going, Datsekkar ! Excellent work on the trading there. IIRC this is a large map, so there should be 4 civs left. Re the trading, I'm not sure - I remember a map where I was able to trade across a small sea route before astronomy, but maybe someone else had the lighthouse and I was trading through them....

Originally posted by Skyfish
Following Sjakie de Koper's invitation I will throw in some wild thoughts, hope you do not mind it and since all of you are very experienced players most of them you will already probably know anyway so excuse me in advance for my stupid comments <snip>

.

For a second there, I didn't know who you were talking about
Nice try though I did mention the spears, but cats is a great idea We are definitely going to need a few to protect our archers/spears.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

also, we will need them to cut the roads around the beachhead so the AI units will have to waste an extra turn coming in and leaving to heal

 

[Datsekkar]

Stapel, I guess you're up since I swapped with Jack

 

[Skyfish]

Taking the Iron is MAINLY for Denial guys : you will have to repulse hordes of AI units -> if those are swords this will double your casualties !

OK the fact they have 2 sources of Iron is a bummer, but I would definitely go for a beachhead right by the Capital and make that Iron a primary pillage objective and ........ but wait lemme first take a look at the save first

 

[Skyfish]

Hum...looking at the map it's not an easy one, if only they had just one source. You can not deny Lux either they have too many sources.
Avoid Pyong Yang, it's on hills !
I would still go and found on the Iron hill next to Hyangsan, because that leaves a short hop to Seoul and the 2nd Iron and you definitely want to have your beach head on a hill.
The only problem with Hyangsan is the distance to your measly island and the galley fights you will have.

What's your take on the ship hopping exploit ?

Good luck, it's gonna be a major bloodbath !

 

[Aggie]

Originally posted by Skyfish
What's your take on the ship hopping exploit ?

This is deity and we are hardly experienced deity players. I don't think that it isn't allowed. Jack has to decide by the way...

 

[Datsekkar]

Originally posted by Skyfish
What's your take on the ship hopping exploit ?

I'd prefer we didn't. Exploits are exploits and shouldn't be... eh... expolited...


@Skyfish: If you have the save open - can't you please provide us with a screenshot...

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

[OffTopic]

aggie:
what happened to our PBEM? Can you play tonight? I have one going with ERIKK, too

[/OffTopic]

 

[Aggie]

Killer, just look at our open thread in anarres' website (in about 5 minutes)...

@DatsekKar: you're right. It is an exploit. I think that we don't need it to win

 

[jack merchant]

Personally, I don't mind using the ship-hopping exploit. I agree with Killer that we need every advantage we can get. However, let's only use it where really needed [on edit, that would, of course, be never]
(I can hardly disallow this 'exploit' after having used scroll-ahead myself already We are not going to use 'false peace treaties' and the like though.)

Looking at the map, we are probably only going to be able to land in the north - Korea is bound to have had border expansions by the time we're ready, and will try to kick usd out for a premature war declaration.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

well, we can have a lot of Galleys moving, and then one may hop..... the AIs do that to me every once in a while, so I am for using it....

 

[jack merchant]

If the AIs do it too, we can most certainly use it. If we are to land near Pusan (pity it isn't called Inch'on ) it will save a turn on bringing over reinforcements.

On the number of units needed: we can be sure that once we land in Korea, the Koreans will try to land on our island. Something to keep in mind.

 

[Stapel]

Got it! The 310 BC save that is.

 

[Stapel]

Preturn. 310 BC. We only use 3 of our 3 wheat. MM-ed a little. Stockholm will finish his acher in 3 turns anyway. Trondheim will grow faster now. The scientist changed to a money maker. Polytheism will be there in 15 turns anyway. Workers move to hills near Oslo. The hills will be available in 3 turns.
We are going to concentrate on archers, spears and cats. We will decide where to attack, the turn before we attack.

Attacking from the sound will cut off the Koreans from irons, but this side will be heavily defended:

 

[Stapel]

1. 290BC. Some movement. A better look teaches us that Stockholm is building an archer without barracks . I change it to spear, which will defend our homes when the archers sail out to punish the Koreans. We buy an embassy in Seoul: the Koreans are buildinga courthouse in their capital…

The Ottomans have construction, but no code of laws. We can byy construction for 470g, wm and CoL. Do we want that? Yes we do! We start buildign aquaducts in Stockholm and Copenhagen.