European Middle Ages Mod Resurrection

[lshockley]

re: Victory Projects:

I agree with both Head Serf and Craig - we absolutely have to correct the AI's tendancy to work on multiple victory projects at once.

I just spent some time looking at ProjectInfo.xml and I am stumped on how we can limit the AI to certain victories. Head Serf, do you already have some insight on this?

The only thing I can think of would be to use the prereq tech tag. Does anybody know if it's possible to have a "non-researchable" tech?? For instance, what if the cost was -1? What would happen? If non-researchable techs are possible, we could set up a that tech as a prereq tech for the components of each of the 3 victories, and then give each civ 1 of the 3 techs as a starting tech. However, I think this would also limit the human player to only one of the 3 victories. Though I'm undecided myself whether or not that would be desirable...

Any thoughts? -Laina

 

[lshockley]

@Gordon... hi!

I'm glad you will be my fellow button maker! Attached is the latest and greatest as far as official code updates we've made for the next release, plus my current working version of TechInfos.xml and the tech buttons I've made so far. Buttons that are missing have the text "ReplaceMe" in the button tag field like this <Button>ReplaceMe</Button>. (They'll show up as pink squares in the pedia.)

Also, I found a great pic to use for Siege Warfare, take a look at the button! And, I'm struggling with a cannon button. My latest attempt is in there now... but I don't think I like it. Could you add Cannon to your list?

Regarding bonus buttons, yes - I think we are trying to keep those as close to the existing style as possible. Have you ever made bonus art before? I think those little icons (I mean the little ones that are similar to the religion icons that show up over the city name) need a special format. I've never made them myself - so if you don't know either, maybe we can tackle those together,

So, take a look, and let me know what you think! Feel free to be critical, as I'm not sensetive about my minimal skills with Photoshop.

-Laina

 

[lshockley]

@Gordon,

Oops... I forgot to attach the file, and it turns out it's too big to upload. I uploaded it here instead.

-Laina

 

[lshockley]

Hi Everybody!

I have added the mountain monastery as the art for Mount Athos. Here are the updated files. (@Gordon, the files I just uploaded for you include this art.)

@Craig & Drtad re: castle art:

Thank you for the art link, but we are already using both Castles in the mod - Castle #1 as Krak des Chevaliers, and Castle #2 as Heidelberg Castle. Also, jojoweb's Medieval Tower found
here is what I used for the Keep. What do you think - good use? Or shall I reconfigure?

-Laina

 

[Gordon Farrell]

@Laina - Hey, you've done some nice work here! Just at first glance my only thought is that the Maltese Cross for Hansa League Member isn't right, since non-Germans might build it, and it just evokes associations with the World Wars of the 20th c. I have a better one, I think, all ready. But otherwise there's some good-looking stuff here!

I also have alternate Native American contact buttons you might like, although yours look great, too.

I'm happy to do cannon. (Has the the cannon from vanilla been deemed too 19th Century-looking?)

What's up with Team Project Buttons? Doesn't look like there's anything new there yet. (Silk Road Trade Alliances, Hans Syndic, Kontors, etc, and NEw World Colonies). I have some stuff that might be good for those.

 

[Gordon Farrell]

@Laina- The Siege Warfare button is sweet-looking! I think more of the details in the artwork (the besiegers, to be precise!) got lost than you might have wanted when it was reduced... but its a handsome piece that really evokes the feeling of castle-assaulting.

 

[Gordon Farrell]

@Laina - Here are those buttons I already have: Hansa League Member, Aztec Contact, and Iriquois Contact. You can see I went in a different direction stylistically w/Native Americans. Either way works, though.

I prefer my Hansa League Member to yours, though!

 

[lshockley]

@Gordon, Thank you, I'm glad you like the work I've done so far!

Feel free to make up new Native American buttons (or any other buttons) - we can compare the two and decide which one we like better! I had a hard time finding something for the Hansa League Memberships - you are more than welcome to make up something new!

Actually, I think the civ cannon is perfect - (by the way, I checked, and they did start mounting cannons onto wheels in the late 14th c.) - however, we are using it for our cannon unit. I thought it might be confusing to have the same button for both the tech and unit... what do you think?

Also, when I was just looking at the buttons you mentioned, I noticed I never added the Paganism icon to the pagan temple button. I will do that right now.

Yes, isn't that Siege Warfare pic great! You're right - it didn't scale down as nicely as I'd hoped, and I didn't like the way it looked when I cropped it closer. But, I think it still works nicely,

I haven't even touched the projects - feel free to take those on! Let me know if you get stumped on any; I'd be happy to help. I think Head Serf may be working in ProjectInfo.xml, so you might want to coordinate with him before you edit the xml.

-Laina

 

[lshockley]

@Gordon, jeez, you're speedy!

Yes, I agree, your Hanseatic membership is much better!

If we decide to go with leaderheads for the Contact wonders, I think we should use the existing Montezuma and Inca leaderhead buttons - I think players will recognize them from vanilla. Also, I think they both lived during the 15th c. What do you think?

-Laina

 

[lshockley]

I thought about an alternative to the experience bonus for walls, and I think maybe all archer and militia units created in a city with walls get a city garrison promotion, 25% increased city defense. I think this makes more sense.

I think this is a great idea! Should the free promotion apply only for Wooden Walls, or for each of the 3 walls?

There is a small implementation problem, however - I can't give a free specific promotion to specific units - I can either give a free promotion to all units, or, free xp to units by domain or combat type. So, the closest workaround would be +Xxp for Archer combats only. (Militia are melee.) What do you think?

If we decide that only Wooden Walls add xp for archers, I would suggest +2xp, which is essentially a free level 1 promo.

If we decide this is for all three walls, we'll just grant the appropriate amount of experience for 1st promo, 2nd promo, 3rd promo - Wooden Walls would add +2xp, Stone Walls +3xp, and Fortified Walls, +5xp.

Any thoughts?

What does everybody think about the revised XP system, as laid out by Drtad and myself? Shall we implement it as proposed?

@Head Serf, I know the nested Walls buildings were your idea, and that you liked the way they came out in the revision, so I'm particularly wanting to hear from you!

-Laina

 

[Head Serf]

@ Kopiano :

Well, I've promised you translation too, but had no time yet

I will translate the Hungarian diplotexts, and maybe offer some special, historical tweaks to some of the english versions as well.

Thanks! Again, there is no hurry, and all help is appreciated.

@ lshockley and Gordon Farrell :
Thanks so much for the tech buttons, I'm glad that a lot of these graphical jobs are getting done. I assume that you're editing the techinfos.xml file for the new buttons, and if you could post that file in particular when you're done, that'd be great, since I plan on making a few minor changes to the tech tree, mostly involving limiting production victories.

On that note, here are the lists of what civs can build each victory. Note: Civs that can build two are italicized.

Hanseatic League
England
Saxony
Normans
Scots
Germany
Goths
Crusaders
Vikings
Poland
Lithuania
Russia
Slavs

New World
England
Welsh
Normans
Scots
Ireland
Vikings
France
Spain
Portugal
Italy
Venice
Papacy
Byzantines
Moors

Silk Route
Crusaders
Venice
Russia
Hungary
Byzantines
Roman Empire
Slavs
Armenia
Arabia
Egypt
Turks
Moors
Persia
Tatars
Mongols
Bulgars
Khazars

 

[Drtad]

I think this is a great idea! Should the free promotion apply only for Wooden Walls, or for each of the 3 walls?

There is a small implementation problem, however - I can't give a free specific promotion to specific units - I can either give a free promotion to all units, or, free xp to units by domain or combat type. So, the closest workaround would be +Xxp for Archer combats only. (Militia are melee.) What do you think?

If we decide that only Wooden Walls add xp for archers, I would suggest +2xp, which is essentially a free level 1 promo.

If we decide this is for all three walls, we'll just grant the appropriate amount of experience for 1st promo, 2nd promo, 3rd promo - Wooden Walls would add +2xp, Stone Walls +3xp, and Fortified Walls, +5xp.

Any thoughts?

What does everybody think about the revised XP system, as laid out by Drtad and myself? Shall we implement it as proposed?

-Laina

@ lshockley
Yeah, walls should only increase the experience of archers. This should be applied to Stone walls and Fortified walls, because archers can stand on top of Stone and Fortified walls and get better shooting range and defend a city more easily atop stone and metal fortifications, while a wooden palisade would hardly qualify as little more then a hindrance to a besieging army.

@Head Serf
I am in the middle of the most fun game I have ever had in Civ IV. I started a game with all of the new building revisions that lshockley has made, and it has created a very fun experience. As Armenia at least, the Moors in the middle of nowhere surrounded by nothing was hardly a fun experience, and is why I press for another Muslin North African civ like the Zirid Emirate. In both my games, Saladin got knocked real bad by the barbs, and then they fell to an Italian invasion! Turkey invaded Byzantium, which was actually in the top five, prompting me to invade Turkey to come to Byzantium's aid. I razed all Turkish improvements in the northern part of Anatolia, but they were good about preventing me from reaching Konya. After taking Antalya I realized how the invasion was fruitless, as I simply did not have the economy to hold Turkey if I conquered it, so I gave up Antalya and the surrounding countryside for a ceasefire, which didn't bode well for Byzantium, which lost one city to the Turks and two cities to a Hungarian invasion. I am thinking of sending Armenian troops to defend Constantinople, but right now I am focusing on a Silk Route victory as Charlemagne is really pumping out those Hanseatic League victory requirements. I am impressed how challenging the mod feels. It is simply great.

 

[Drtad]

Another note, I think the reason the Orthodox and Muslim factions are always low on the scoreboard are because the Catholic nations never fight each other. I think that the diplo penalty for border tension should be increased by a lot to encourage more warfare.

P.S. I have also never seen England fight with anybody.

 

[Craig_Sutter]

I don't think anyone has done any work with AI leaders tendencies to war and diplomacy, etc. Perhaps once that is worked on a bit, the conflicts may be enhanced.

 

[Gordon Farrell]

@Gordon, jeez, you're speedy!

Yes, I agree, your Hanseatic membership is much better!

If we decide to go with leaderheads for the Contact wonders, I think we should use the existing Montezuma and Inca leaderhead buttons - I think players will recognize them from vanilla. Also, I think they both lived during the 15th c. What do you think?

-Laina

@Laina - Naw, we should just stick with the icons for NW Contact you already have! However, I want to run something else by you...

NEW WORLD: I have a good button for NW Voyage, it's a medieval cog like the Santa Maria. Is it too simlar an idea to the sailing ship you used for NW Conquest? (I think someone's eventually going to point out that that ship is an 18th Century ship at some point, btw...)

Anyway, in the attached zip you'll find my NW Voyage Button, a stylistically matching NW Colony, and two new ideas for NW Conquest. Hope some of them work for you!

HANSA LEAGUE: I suggest using the Mercantilism button for Hansa Kontor, since they were basically just trading posts established in other countries. Then maybe use the Fascism Fist for Despotic Rule? Or, wait, I have Desp. Rule button I'll put in my next package.

 

[Gordon Farrell]

@Laina: Here are some ideas for

Vassalage
Feudalism
Monastic orders
Pilgrimage (least happy with this one)
Cannon_tech
Despotic Rule (or use as an alternative Feudalism)

Enjoy!

 

[Gordon Farrell]

One more thought on medieval cannons...

Unless I'm totally wrong, the way they're being used in the game really isn't accurate! Medieval cannons may have been put on wheels late in the Middle Ages, but that was just so they could be rolled around the castle. Cannons used in sieges were big, ugly iron tubes that had to be transported by wagon, sometimes in multiple pieces, then assembled and set up outside the enemy's walls. They were useless otherwise + weren't used against armies.

What Civ4 calls cannons are really more properly "field artillery," which didn't come of age until Napoleon Bonaparte taught Europe how to use them. Much to Europe's chagrin.

However, given the way cannons are used in EMA, the existing button is fine. The button I've sent you for cannon_tech is a LITTLE more medieval, but it's definitely not field artillery...

...don't mind me, I'm just mumbling out loud...

 

[Broken Hawk]

@Laina

Is it possible to put the all the Assets updates in a single zip and post it or do something else that is not a hassle for you? I missed any upload prior to the last two...I think. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Drtad]

I got to 1400AD in my game, and quite a bit happened. Canute declared war on just about everyone, launched an offensive that managed to do nothing. Alfonso VI attacked Abderraman III in Iberia, quickly knocking down their Iberian posessions. The Moors counterattacked, taking Valencia, a Spanish posession in North Africa. The Spanish then launched an amphibious assault, and a daring one at that, they bypassed the Moorish coastal cities and went right for Fez, the capital. Fez fell, and another amphibious assault took out another Moorish army in Valencia. But they weren't done there, they then attacked and took Rabat! The Moors seem like thy are on their last legs. Saladin continues to decay against the barbarians. Abu Bakr declared war on Batu Khan and did nothing. surprisingly, as I was caught unawares, Batu Khan invaded me with a large horde of light cavalry. My knights, even though more powerful, fell before them, causing me to appeal to Vladimir I to help. He agreed, and took the Tatar stronghold of Sarkel. The Tatar army in Armenia was destroyed and retreated, and turned the tide against the Russians, launching counterattacks there. I was able to sack Tmutarakan and occupied their capital, Bilar. I also noticed something major. Charlemagne was finishing up his New World North American colonies, and then Germany, in the middle of the scoreboard, launched an enormous blitzkrieg against the vastly more powerful and advanced French. Carcasonne fell quickly, and after some trench warfare, Paris fell, crippling Charlemagne, and allowing Piero Orseolo to take the score lead. As I campaigned in Tatarstan, Turkey, realizing that I was striving for a Silk Route victory, invaded at my vulnerable Armenian Plateau. I made piece with Tatarstan and diverted everything I had to defend Lori and Ani, where all of my projects were being built. An inconclusive enagement near Lori ended with Turkish forces splitting up and razing the countryside. I diverted more troops to Lori from Vagharshapat and Armavir, and an enormous stack of Turkish Heavy Cavalry appeared right near, Vagharshapat and Armavir. I thought defeat was at hand, but I played one last card, diplomacy. I appealed to the ailing but still formidable Byzantine Empire for aid, and they surely agreed with some tech bribing. The Turkish stack retreated to fling itself at the Byzantines. Anyway, the game is much more fun in the late era, when everyone is scrambling for victory. Very fun.

 

[Broken Hawk]

Wow! What level were you playing?