At deity level, every nation hates you from the get go. I dont understand why. Even if you have never fought with that nation, they allways denounce you. Why? Wouldnt it be more 'realistic' to have nation be friendly in the start and only get angry if you start wars out of the blue?
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Everybody is angry
- Thread starter Bobolove
- Start date
Ozisl
Warlord
Well, the AI is pretty bad, and has to make up for it by spamming units and being very aggressive with them. I mean, it is so dumb that you can plant an Inquisitor on a holy site, and they'll keep attacking it with apostles for no reason.
It would be nice if they had warmonger status that lasted more than 3 turns.
It would be nice if they had warmonger status that lasted more than 3 turns.
CaiusDrewart
King
AIs on high levels start with a "first impression" modifier that is usually negative. If not countered by positive modifiers from embassies and gifts, AIs will usually slide into unfriendliness by default.
So make sure you send embassies right away. If you have a spare luxury you can gift them, or if you can offer open borders, that really helps too.
I do agree though, that all too often the AI will end up hating you regardless, especially if you embark on any military expansion whatsoever.
So make sure you send embassies right away. If you have a spare luxury you can gift them, or if you can offer open borders, that really helps too.
I do agree though, that all too often the AI will end up hating you regardless, especially if you embark on any military expansion whatsoever.
pietro1990
King
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2016
- Messages
- 612
Its the hidden agenda and historic agenda's.
The historic agenda can sometimes be bad because i n the early game you don't have the requirements they want .
Historic agenda are mostly about something in youre empire that is bigger then them this is why they hate you most of the time more production then deity AI No thats not going to work.
The historic agenda can sometimes be bad because i n the early game you don't have the requirements they want .
Historic agenda are mostly about something in youre empire that is bigger then them this is why they hate you most of the time more production then deity AI No thats not going to work.
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2011
- Messages
- 11,902
Embassy and spy and look into the mind of these countries and you get quite a detailed list of why you have been such a naughty boy.
Dominate and quantify their needs.
You are an alien, the more like them you are the more they will like you.
Dominate and quantify their needs.
You are an alien, the more like them you are the more they will like you.
gunnergoz
Cat Herder
First, its a game and has to have tensions and competition or else it would be a tedious, repetitive sandbox. Second, the AI is just formulas and algorithms couched in human-speak and if you take a minute to figure out what the AI is seeking and then either satisfy it or prevent it, that's how you keep the AI in line while you go on to win. The AI has to be adversarial in the areas where its programming leads to victory, and can behave less adversarial in those areas secondary to its own victory goals.
DemonMaster
A.K.A. Fenhorn
Strange, over half of the AI are neutral or likes me, and yes, I do make war, take cities and all that. Perhaps it is my winning personality that does it (or perhaps I do know how to read AI and use that 
).
).
Feyd Rautha
King
The entire diplomatic relations concept of the underlying +/- system is ridiculous, and the AI doesn't even respect it. I have already had two games where my military was the strongest, I had friendly relations with the AI, and they mass a bunch of useless troops on my border for five turns before they declare a surprise war. It's like if you're winning all +/- just goes out the window. I had a friendly relationship with one AI and because they kept sending apostles into my lands and suiciding them against my debator apostle sitting in a holy site they declared a surprise war after one of their cities flipped even after I told them I'll convert whoever wants it. Just plain stupid. Oh... and religious victory was turned OFF! 
Anyway, if you are at all seen as winning the game they will hate you and refuse any logical level of diplomacy. You'd think it would be better with definitive numbers showing now, but again... I've had all green "friendly" relations and still received surprise war declarations. ARRRRrggghh!
Anyway, if you are at all seen as winning the game they will hate you and refuse any logical level of diplomacy. You'd think it would be better with definitive numbers showing now, but again... I've had all green "friendly" relations and still received surprise war declarations. ARRRRrggghh!
smartcanuck1988
Warlord
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2016
- Messages
- 276
In this current game I'm playing, Norway was the only AI that wasn't unfriendly to me. HE contacted me asking if I could start a joint war against Scythia. I refused (I didn't have good enough units then). Not 5 turns later, I ask for a joint war with Norway against Scythia. They agree and we go to war. The very next turn he denounces me because I am a warmonger 
The funny thing is that after the war is over (which of course he fully participated in yet did nothing intelligent), I have +5 for "We fought a joint war together" but -26 due to "[my] warmongering".
It's like there were 5 separate people working on the +/- relationship modifiers and never talked to each other throughout the development process. No balance whatsoever.
The funny thing is that after the war is over (which of course he fully participated in yet did nothing intelligent), I have +5 for "We fought a joint war together" but -26 due to "[my] warmongering".
It's like there were 5 separate people working on the +/- relationship modifiers and never talked to each other throughout the development process. No balance whatsoever.
idjit
Chieftain
Except this doesn't always logically work. Last game, Spain hated that I existed. He refused my delegation, and DOWd me before I could get my first trader out, research open borders or hook up my first luxes.
fatgordy
Chicken in Pants
I struggled in my last game to figure out what I could do to make the AI friendly with me. I played for Culture victory and only ever went to war in the very early game and didn't have any warmongering penalties. I focused heavily on one of the AIs to try to make them friendly. Right around turn 150, I had more + modifiers than - and our relationship went to Neutral. I established an embassy, revealed his hidden agenda and made sure I wasn't conflicting with it. I had open borders, trade routes, and gave him favorable trades all of the time. So for about 100 turns, we sat at neutral and it never went friendly. Even though I was consistently positive in total modifiers for almost all 100ish turns. All I can guess is that there is some hidden event that I was/wasn't triggering that kept me from going friendly with him. So frustrating.
Once you get yourself established in a game people do tend to like you, though it depends on who they are and there's probably some hidden mechanics / luck in there as well.
In a recent game as Kongo on Emperor, I conquered my neighbour Japan before meeting anyone else and then was in a pretty good position for the rest of the game. Trajan loved the size of my empire. Cleopatra the size of my army. Cleo and Barbarossa both liked my air force. Peter liked my gold income and science / culture. Medici liked my diplomacy, though she also had the paranoid agenda and was scared at the size of my military. For a good long while everyone was at neutral or better with me. Gilgamesh and Peter were the only ones I actually managed to make an alliance with though. I totally avoided war once I was finished with Japan, which was at about turn 100 on epic.
Funnily enough, I was going for a culture victory and for the last 10 or so turns, Cleopatra DoW'd me and I could see Barbarossa sending his troops my way even though we were on relatively good terms. I guess diplomacy does go out the window if they think they're about to lose but that makes sense. If I saw Gilgamesh about to win a science victory or something, I'd DoW him no question even if he's my buddy.
In a recent game as Kongo on Emperor, I conquered my neighbour Japan before meeting anyone else and then was in a pretty good position for the rest of the game. Trajan loved the size of my empire. Cleopatra the size of my army. Cleo and Barbarossa both liked my air force. Peter liked my gold income and science / culture. Medici liked my diplomacy, though she also had the paranoid agenda and was scared at the size of my military. For a good long while everyone was at neutral or better with me. Gilgamesh and Peter were the only ones I actually managed to make an alliance with though. I totally avoided war once I was finished with Japan, which was at about turn 100 on epic.
Funnily enough, I was going for a culture victory and for the last 10 or so turns, Cleopatra DoW'd me and I could see Barbarossa sending his troops my way even though we were on relatively good terms. I guess diplomacy does go out the window if they think they're about to lose but that makes sense. If I saw Gilgamesh about to win a science victory or something, I'd DoW him no question even if he's my buddy.
I dont think you can expect a stable diplogame until mods fix it. If you look midway through the game the AIs usually hate each other as well. The negative modifiers are just to big, i could understand some of the extrem like having a different religion then Saladin. But a small thing like having a different government is detrimental to any thought of friendly relations.
I do like that the AI seem to DoW each other more this game, makes up for the lack of being able to bribe them into warring eachother.
I do like that the AI seem to DoW each other more this game, makes up for the lack of being able to bribe them into warring eachother.
criZp
Deity
Tensions come from resource competition, the AIs are being a bunch of irrational babies.
I have some pretty decent relations with a few civs at the moment. Allied to Kongo for one revolution, just to try it out. Its auto-open borders btw. Cleo, Sumeria, Rome, maybe some more, are showing me green.
One thing I learned is never declare friendship with Rome. Every single time I have, he DOWs on me. Every single time. But, if he is showing me green, and I don't DF, he won't DOW, even early game.
Norway and Scythia are perma-frowns because I hold their cities, even though they ceded them. So, AI is programmed to forward settle, and AI is programmed to always hate you for taking (but not razing) their cities. If you care about diplomacy, raze cities, don't take them.
China has been DOW with me for ... I dunno, 100+ turns at this point? Crazy long time, I know that. But he's pissed at everyone. All he does is build his stupid wall, and cry about other folks building wonders. - TRY - BUILDING - ONE - Moron.
Idealogue is just the worst, I agree. Crazy penalty.
Victoria is kind of funny. She loved me for being on the same continent, but then Russia go too big, so now I'm straddling continents, and Vick ain't happy.
One thing, among many, that bothers me, is how folks are declaring formal wars against me without denouncing me first. Isn't that a surprise war?
Regardless, the diplomacy penalties are way too high think. You should at least have a shot at making people like you if you put the effort in.
One thing I learned is never declare friendship with Rome. Every single time I have, he DOWs on me. Every single time. But, if he is showing me green, and I don't DF, he won't DOW, even early game.
Norway and Scythia are perma-frowns because I hold their cities, even though they ceded them. So, AI is programmed to forward settle, and AI is programmed to always hate you for taking (but not razing) their cities. If you care about diplomacy, raze cities, don't take them.
China has been DOW with me for ... I dunno, 100+ turns at this point? Crazy long time, I know that. But he's pissed at everyone. All he does is build his stupid wall, and cry about other folks building wonders. - TRY - BUILDING - ONE - Moron.
Idealogue is just the worst, I agree. Crazy penalty.
Victoria is kind of funny. She loved me for being on the same continent, but then Russia go too big, so now I'm straddling continents, and Vick ain't happy.
One thing, among many, that bothers me, is how folks are declaring formal wars against me without denouncing me first. Isn't that a surprise war?
Regardless, the diplomacy penalties are way too high think. You should at least have a shot at making people like you if you put the effort in.
smartcanuck1988
Warlord
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2016
- Messages
- 276
I had the same thing happen to me too
.. China rarely builds wonders yet I got denounced the same turn I finish building ONE wonder.In this current game I'm playing, Norway was the only AI that wasn't unfriendly to me. HE contacted me asking if I could start a joint war against Scythia. I refused (I didn't have good enough units then). Not 5 turns later, I ask for a joint war with Norway against Scythia. They agree and we go to war. The very next turn he denounces me because I am a warmonger
The funny thing is that after the war is over (which of course he fully participated in yet did nothing intelligent), I have +5 for "We fought a joint war together" but -26 due to "[my] warmongering".
It's like there were 5 separate people working on the +/- relationship modifiers and never talked to each other throughout the development process. No balance whatsoever.
I liberated the Arabian capital from the French, who had conquered them centuries before. I expected to have a good friend for the rest of the game, but instead the resurrected Saladin denounced me for being a warmonger!
