exclusive wonders for certain civs?

[Stilgar08]

In this german article on page 2 they state that there will be SOME wonders only available for the civ that originally built them.
http://www.gameswelt.de/sid-meiers-...r-koenig-der-strategie-ist-wieder-da,258009,2

They claim that this is for the sake of differenciation and uniqueness.

This leaves me with a few things to think about:

1. Which wonders will be exclusive? What will be the impact of those wonders to the uniqueness of the civ? What might be the bonusses?

I got a feeling Ed and his team are bold giving high bonusses on a lot of stuff (civics seem powerful, districts seem powerful, CS bonusses look good) encouraging the player to decide for a way and stick to it. Therefore I believe Wonder-bonusses will be high as well. Even for the exclusive ones.

2. How does this change the characteristica of the game?

So far I was applauding to almost any change which came up. I like the graphics and cleanliness #rant.on.who.cares#, I like a lot of the ideas they brought up (districts, GP, civics and politics, CS changes, softening 1UPT, 64bit.etc.etc.).
On this one I'm not so sure. I was enjoying building the wonders of the world without the need to be Greece to build the colossus or Egypt to build the pyramids. This would be a big impact to the "pick random civ" option for the start of the game. Maybe I'll like it nevertheless, but I'm not sure. No wonder race for those exclusive ones, no way of denying those wonders to the civ entitled to get it?

Good for modders maybe...

I agree it makes civs even more unique but one of the main aspects of the game is "change history with your civ" and having wonders available to build was always a good move gamewise, IMO.

The Sphynx - unique for Egypt, the pyramids not?? (I don't know this, just an example) - I'm just not sure...

What are your thoughts about it?

3. Is it fair to assume that the wonders we've seen in the SS and videos are safe "not to be exclusive" or is it too early to say so?

Stonehenge will be free to all the civs, I'm quite sure about it, because the great prophet and the free site for creating your religion is too OP to make it unique (and the Celts are not in from start *duckandcover*).
The pyramids and lighthouse have been in China... Or is it just the early stage of development; which isn't really that early btw.


P.S.: I didn't know gameswelt.de before so I don't know how reliable the source is, but Civilization -2ks and Firaxis official german Facebook-account linked it.

 

[chaosprophet]

I guess it depends on number, if they still give us a total number of wonders that anyone can build around the size we are used (28 on CiV vanilla?), it wouldn't matter much to have some unique to specific civs. Also would help if all civs have their own but only 1, really nicely adding to each unique variety.

And it would also be another thing that weights on you wanting to conquer one enemy civilization, to get that shiny wonder that you can only obtain by conquering the city where they built it.

 

[Ryika]

Well, one sentence before that the Article also claims that Stonehenge can only be built "on" Stone, when in reality it can only be built next to stone. And that Workers construct "buildings". May just be another error given that it's the only source that has that interesting information and that the concept sound rather... silly to me. Isn't the goal of Wonders that you compete for them?

Oooon the other hand my "Awesome Sponsors"-Mod already had a unique Wonder for a Civilization, maybe I can convince myself that the devs played that mod, loved the idea and chose to roll with it. Just gotta work on believing that hard enough. But on a more serious note I guess with Wonders now visually represented it may make sense to use some of them like that.

*sigh* Felix Rick though. That nostalgia... so overwhelming. Good old days, sitting on the sofa, watching Giga.

 

[JtW]

Well, we do know that the Great Wall will be exclusive to China, although it will be more of a unique tile improvement than wonder. The article may well have been referring to that.

 

[awesome]

Ugh, I really hope it's just a miscommunication. I mean, I guess that unique wonders can give you another reason to go to war, but other than that, they kind of get devalued when you cut out the wonder race.

 

[DJ_Tanner]

Pretty sure they just mean some former Wonders are now unique. Like the Great Wall is a China UI. So I am sure some others will get similar treatment.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Ugh, I really hope it's just a miscommunication. I mean, I guess that unique wonders can give you another reason to go to war, but other than that, they kind of get devalued when you cut out the wonder race.

Well, this reason is as good as anything else. As long as there's enough "normal" wonders I have no problems with some civilization having unique wonders which other civ want to conquest. It may even could give more bonuses to conqueror than to original civ to make the effect actually work without wonder being uber.

But honestly, I have strong feeling the article was talking about Great Wall being Chinese unique improvement now. It fits their level of mistakes perfectly.

EDIT: ninjed

 

[chaosprophet]

Thinking about it, for now I think chances are higher that your guys are right and it's a mistake. Even more considering ED Beach said that between the Forbidden Palace, Sphinx, Colosseum and the Great Wall of China, two were world wonders and two were civilization unique improvements, so chances are high that another (besides the already confirmed wall) generally considered a world wonder will also be a civilization unique tile improvement now. If it's not the Colosseum which was a building on previous games, but I think chances are it's a wonder now. It was an unique construction after all, and it already have a generic version as a building, the amphitheater.

 

[Stilgar08]

Thinking about it, for now I think chances are higher that your guys are right and it's a mistake. Even more considering ED Beach said that between the Forbidden Palace, Sphinx, Colosseum and the Great Wall of China, two were world wonders and two were civilization unique improvements, so chances are high that another (besides the already confirmed wall) generally considered a world wonder will also be a civilization unique tile improvement now. If it's not the Colosseum which was a building on previous games, but I think chances are it's a wonder now. It was an unique construction after all, and it already have a generic version as a building, the amphitheater.

fair enough, all of what you said. But in that case it's just a label - Unique Improvement or exclusive wonder. It still is a unique "thing" the civ can build and no one else. I understand the idea with the Great Wall since it basically IS a wonder that's used and built differently (Not on one tile but on many tiles)
FP, Sphinx, Collosseum are all different in that regard and not an improvement but a building/wonder. Doesn't matter how you call it, if it gives the benefits of the wonder...
Maybe it's the new kind of UB...

If it's not a mistake (spreaded by 2ks Civ-FB-account after all. They can do stupid stuff too, of course) and considering the Unique Improvement remark by Ed (thanks for bringing that up, chaosprophet) I'm pretty sure they're indeed going in that direction.
And it's not only the chinese Wall then...

As long as there's enough "normal" wonders I have no problems with some civilization having unique wonders which other civ want to conquest.

Agreed.

 

[chaosprophet]

fair enough, all of what you said. But in that case it's just a label - Unique Improvement or exclusive wonder. It still is a unique "thing" the civ can build and no one else. I understand the idea with the Great Wall since it basically IS a wonder that's used and built differently (Not on one tile but on many tiles)
FP, Sphinx, Collosseum are all different in that regard and not an improvement but a building/wonder. Doesn't matter how you call it, if it gives the benefits of the wonder...
Maybe it's the new kind of UB...

Well, my guess is that gameplay wise, the unique improvements that were previously wonders (some cvis may have unique improvements that weren't in the game before too) will give bonus that are nowhere as good as actual wonders, as they would have to be balanced compare to other civilizations unique.

If we take America as an example, it has two time limited unique (units) and one lasting unique (the film studio). My guess is that other civs also will have two time limited and one lasting, besides UA. So if the great wall, for instance, is China's lasting unique, then it may have an effect even weaker than an unique building (as UB will likely be only one per city, and even only cities that has the district it's built on) while the wall can be built at an unlimited amount, apparently, although at the expense of builders which are limited in number of uses.

From quill18 (iirc) saying the great wall improvements need to be garrisoned,it may just work like a earlier to build fort, maybe a bit stronger on the defense bonus or with a movement penalty to cross.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Well, we do know that the Great Wall will be exclusive to China, although it will be more of a unique tile improvement than wonder. The article may well have been referring to that.

That's my gut reaction as well.

 

[Seek]

Even if each civ gets a unique wonder and it wasn't a mistake, it's not too much of a departure. Instead of generic national wonders civs could get one specific national wonder (Communitas did this for Denmark, for example).

 

[Acken]

I certainly hope not. A couple civs getting a special wonder as their uniques is fine though.

 

[Plus Ultra]

Having a UW is something that makes no sense, since all wonders are by definition already unique to the civilization that builds them first.

Of course, a CivV wonder can potentially turn out to be a UI or UB in Civ IV.
In fact, we already know this is the case, since the Great Wall for China has been confirmed as an UI.

 

[m15a]

A unique wonder would just be a unique building you're only allowed to build once. Or really more like a unique improvement since it takes up a tile. Not controversial IMO, but I agree that not every civ should have it. (And it seems that America does not assuming we were told of all the uniques.)

 

[benjamin28]

I think it might be a mistake, too. But let's consider there ARE unique Wonders: think of it as an additional UA, but one you don't get at the beginning. You have to research a tech and invest production at a certain age. So it becomes an strategic choice: do you build it right away and get the bonuses? The other civs could potentially know that, at that point, you'll be likely assigning your resources to said wonder, and use this to their advantage.

If this is the case, then the Colosseum could be the Roman UW and the Forbidden City, the Chinese one.

Anyway, this seems like a HARD feature to balance.

 

[Ikael]

I really do hope that this is just some misunderstanding regarding wonders becoming unique improvements a la China's great wall.

A unique wonder simply doesn't make any lick of sense. It doesn't add strategical depth nor player decision, for unlike regular wonders, you will build it always. And it doesn't add flavour either, for it is a "one and done" element for your civ rather than a constant presence.

 

[ldvhl]

Agreed. Definitely not hype for unique wonders. That's probably one of the first things I'll hope for getting modded out.

 

[ehecatzin]

I wouldn't mind unique wonders if they have a requisite attached to them, as in national wonders, in the end, due to the district system they would be a stronger Unique Improvement really, it balances out, you can only build it once.

I just hope every civ doesnt get a unique wonder.

 

[awesome]

Well, my guess is that gameplay wise, the unique improvements that were previously wonders (some cvis may have unique improvements that weren't in the game before too) will give bonus that are nowhere as good as actual wonders, as they would have to be balanced compare to other civilizations unique.

Well, in Civ4, the Moai Statues were a (national?) wonder, and in Civ5, they were a unique improvement, so this isn't the first time.

I wouldn't mind unique wonders if they have a requisite attached to them, as in national wonders, in the end, due to the district system they would be a stronger Unique Improvement really, it balances out, you can only build it once.

I just hope every civ doesnt get a unique wonder.

That's the thing, though: it ends up being a giant can of worms if you only give certain civilizations a wonder.