Explain National Parks to me...

[newbie2]

on the topic of national parks and the tourism output, what is the conversion rate/ rating? Is a national park as good as a themed museum? or a seaside resort?

I do a bit of everything when i go for a cultural victory (as you need the faith anyway for rockbands), but I never quite know how to interpret the tourism map mode and what gives me the most.

 

[Naeshar]

on the topic of national parks and the tourism output, what is the conversion rate/ rating? Is a national park as good as a themed museum? or a seaside resort?

I do a bit of everything when i go for a cultural victory (as you need the faith anyway for rockbands), but I never quite know how to interpret the tourism map mode and what gives me the most.

It can be much better in terms of tourism. I have seen them gathering tourists (the number in tourism lens) much faster than anything else. I have it saved somewhere, but 256 tourism (with all multipliers) should be real. It contains four tiles, so it should be compared to four resorts or improvements, probably.
Never forget to improve its potential by planting trees, old-growth is ideal, but new-growth is also fine. Usually features and districts influence adjacent tiles, so neighboring Theatre Squares, Holy Sites and Entertainment Ds help, as growing trees next to the tiles. Avoid mines (you might not need them anyway in culture victory this late) and Industrial Zones close by. Wonders also increase appeal.

I prefer NPs over rockbands.

 

[Vargas1]

Once you have the basic understanding down (which this thread lays out nicely), the best way to learn about national parks and appeal is to play a game as someone whose style revolves around appeal - Bull Moose Teddy, Canada (though I've never played them), or Australia are all good places to start. I also had a lot of trouble understanding appeal modifiers and how national parks worked until I played a game with Bull Moose, which really made me pay attention to all of those things (plus he's a lot of fun to play with).

 

[InsidiousMage]

on the topic of national parks and the tourism output, what is the conversion rate/ rating? Is a national park as good as a themed museum? or a seaside resort?

Here's a good video breaking down how national parks compare vs rock bands that goes into the tourism potential of both.

 

[fy00sh]

I think I was able to swap them (but not buy them, of course)

you can only swap 4th and 5th ring tiles between cities if they'll be 1st, 2nd, or 3rd ring tiles in the city you're swapping them to. so if a tile is 4 away from both cities A and B, it wont be swappable, but if it's 4 away from A and 3 away from B, you can swap from A to B but not from B to A

 

[PiR]

if it's 4 away from A and 3 away from B, you can swap from A to B

I think that's what happened, yes, maybe even only 2 away from B, and the sad thing is that for many, many turns, B could have used that tile when A didn't make any use of it at all and I expected the game to handle this, not me to be obligated to micromanage it. It was only when I wanted to build a district in B that I realized that.

A was Amboise and B was Jarnac and the district was the encampment in the middle.



Once I get Grenoble, do you think I can build my park on the whole Chocolate Hills natural wonder? I guess not because I won't be able to swap the tiles...

 

[Aurelesk]

Sadly, no.

But Amboise can put a National Park with 2 of the Chocolate Hills natural wonder. But it needs some effort:

• Both Chocolate Hills tiles have an Appeal value of 5, because natural Wonders tiles itself are always at 5.
• The Woods tile has an Appeal of Charming (3) or Breathtaking (4), depending if it is an old-growth or new-growth. So it is good.
• The flat grassland tile has an Appeal of 0 or maybe -1. The math is: 2 (next to natural wonder) + 1 (next to Woods) - 1 (next to Marsh) - 1 (next to Mine) - 1 (next to a pillaged improvement) - 1 or 0 (is the diplomatic quarter on a floodplain or not?).

You need to raise the Appeal of that flat grassland tile if you want a Natural Park on it:

• Repair the Mine (+1 Appeal). You could even remove the Mine (+1 additionnal Appeal) just the time to have the required Appeal on it.
• Remove the Marsh (+1 Appeal)
• Put something that increase Appeal where the Marsh it. For example: Woods (+1 Appeal), a Holy Site or a Theatre Square or a Entertainment Complex (+1 Appeal), or if you have Liang with her third promotion: a City Park (+2 Appeal).

 

[PiR]

• Repair the Mine (+1 Appeal)

• Remove the Marsh (+1 Appeal)

• Put something that increase Appeal where the Marsh it. For example: Woods (+1 Appeal)

Exactly what I did



Thanks!

 

[walkerjks]

on the topic of national parks and the tourism output, what is the conversion rate/ rating? Is a national park as good as a themed museum? or a seaside resort?

tourists/turn is equal to the sum of the appeal of the 4 tiles you place it on. While you can't plant a forest inside a park once it is built (do it before! +1 appeal to other park tiles!), you can make changes just outside the park that affect the tourism within the park. Removing a mine that is next to 2 tiles of a park is +2 tourism/turn and doesn't take a builder charge. Planting a forest on the same tile is another +2 tourism/turn and does require a builder charge (with another charge if you had to remove a bonus resource as well). Point is, a 5-charge builder can dramatically improve a park.

So it's a little hard to compare a national park to other things as "it depends on the park" and "it depends on what otherwise could go there". If the park could otherwise go to a ski resort and a couple +5 faith/turn (and therefore +5/tourism each ) colossal heads (for +14 tourism/turn), your +20 tourism/turn national park doesn't look nearly as good.

A themed archeology museum for most civs is 27 tourism I believe (with the doubling card in play). That's a lot of hammers and time to get there, but it's more than most national parks. But that's not usually a real trade-off as parks take faith (except for Canada) and artifacts take hammers (or gold or faith if you are Melenik, well, you get the idea). Seaside resorts are rarely in national park sites, but when they are, see the note about opportunity cost that applies to ski resorts.

 

[PiR]

While you can't plant a forest inside a park once it is built (do it before! +1 appeal to other park tiles!)

Isn't it capped? Can we improve the appeal of a natural wonder for example?
If so, I should have planted woods within the park here? not just outside to allow the creation of the park

 

[Aurelesk]

While you can't plant a forest inside a park once it is built (do it before! +1 appeal to other park tiles!)

You can plant Woods inside a National Park. Sadly, you cannot harvest anything inside a National Park, even a Marsh to put Wood instead.

your +20 tourism/turn national park doesn't look nearly as good.

Don't forget to mention that National Park isn't only for Tourism. It gives 2 Amenities for the city, and 1 Amenity for the closest 4 cities in your empire (basicly: like a luxury ressource). With the new Preserve district, the National Parks are even more valuable since you can now plan to put them around the Preserve and end up to have very good workable tiles.

In the example upthere, if the World Congress allows you to Culture Bomb with districts, I will put a Preserve on the Woods between the northern part of the Chocolate Hills and the Government Plaza of Amboise, steal the Rice tile (breathtaking) and the tile next to the city center of Chinguetti (at least charming).
Or you could conquer Chinguetti and put an additionnal National Park. The suzerain bonus of Chinguetti is incredible... if you have a religion. None of you have one, so you probably started the game at the Industrial era or later (so no Kilwa Kisiwani), and unable to enjoy the 6-Envoy bonus. That City-State has no real value, sadly, except of course for the 3 Faith per city with a Holy Site in a game without religion and third building, the +1 DF and some juicy trade route with Democracy.

But the best National Park improvement is the Eiffel Tower. If you have it, all tiles enjoy +2 Appeal, which means that almost all National Parks are +8 Tourism.

 

[PiR]

None of you have one, so you probably started the game at the Industrial era or later

Good eye!
Atomic Era Start, yes.

That's interesting how cheap the districts were because of that, but how expensive (in hammers) the buildings were (because of Marathon I guess)

But thanks to the video linked here (PotatoMcWhiskey), I understood in a 1v1 it's better to use rock bands than national parks.

 

[borad]

After watching that (failed) PotatoMcWhiskey video, I did the same wet highlands no-speciality districts cultural challenge. One city aside I basically just built preserves, aqueducts, entertainment districts, and (eventually) more forests. Plus a couple neighbourhoods late that made the aqueducts seem pointless. Late game your cities are basically uncapped amenity and health-wise. The eventual huge sea of insane yields was very satisfying.

I ended up with dozens of national parks. It wasn’t a super-fast win but it was easier than I thought it would be: science was competitive and culture was runaway.

 

[PiR]

How do you keep up with science and culture without campus and theater?

 

[walkerjks]

How do you keep up with science and culture without campus and theater?

Most straight-forward way is faith and voidsingers, which, of course, is also hard without holy sites.

Easiest is Menelik + void singers. +35% of faith bonus to both science and culture and Menelik may be the best faith generator without religion. You have to really focus on resource improvement and rock-hewn church building.

Canada can build faith-less national parks, so they are a real contender as well. Civs that can manipulate appeals (Egypt + Persia) + Earth Goddess is another possibility. Nature Preserves obviously help a lot here as well.

 

[9gkj548hkm20vk79dj689bnj4]

I would not buy a naturalist unless the game advisor icon actually recommends that you do. That then means there is a valid spot in your land somewhere. Remember that at least one tile of the four has to be in passable terrain for the naturalist to make it there. Some times (for me at least) you will see mountains highlighted as being "ready" for a park, but alas, you won't be able to move the naturalist there


There is also a mod that I use which increases the number of map lenses, including naturalist. Spots will highlight as "needs work". Usually this means having to remove tile improvements and/or plant forests in order to achieve the proper spot for one.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=871712879

I still haven't gotten the hang of preserves, but they help to increase the land value around it which might finally give you a valid space for a park.

 

[borad]

How do you keep up with science and culture without campus and theater?

Surprisingly easily, though I didn’t have any overt science civs against me. Remember that Bull Moose’s leader ability is “Breathtaking tiles gain +2 Science when adjacent to a Natural Wonder or Mountain, and +2 Culture when adjacent to a Wonder or Woods.”

With the right starting location you get a good head start on everyone.

Given the map I chose (lots of mountains and forests... and a lot of jungle to chop) and the self-imposed limits on what districts I could build, I ended with huge cities and almost every tile was giving me science and culture (the tiles around Preserves all the more).

I also chose Earth Goddess which gave me enough Faith to spam Naturalists once the time came… though that’s just been nerfed in the new patch.