Exploit so blatant that it is 'WAD' ?

[Pocus]

Turn N: Avatar of Wrath.

'Wow, I have a slew of furious Barbarians at my gate'.

Turn N+1: Prepared Nature Wrath transforms most of them into animals.

'Good, now I can concentrate on the leader'. Where are my skels and fireball-wielders?



You get the idea. Build up NW until it is one turn from completion, remove it from queue, do something else, and keep it in reserve for the future ...

(disclaimer: this is a theorical thinking which stroke me... perhaps something has been planned on that?)

 

[Sarisin]

Turn N: Avatar of Wrath.

'Wow, I have a slew of furious Barbarians at my gate'.

Turn N+1: Prepared Nature Wrath transforms most of them into animals.

'Good, now I can concentrate on the leader'. Where are my skels and fireball-wielders?



You get the idea. Build up NW until it is one turn from completion, remove it from queue, do something else, and keep it in reserve for the future ...

(disclaimer: this is a theorical thinking which stroke me... perhaps something has been planned on that?)

I'm a little confused. I thought this was the way AC 90 worked several versions ago.

Now, when the counter hits 90, the Avatar of Wrath appears, BUT a certain percentage of units get the Enraged promotion with the potential to go barbarian. But, they usually do not right away, plus, if they have the Loyalty promotion, they should not go barbarian at all.

So, I'm not sure how your exploit would work now

Unless there has been another change to AC 90...

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Natures Revenge only effects specific units (like warriors, rangers, archers, etc), not any of the heroes or national units.

I think that Natures Revenge also only affects living units. Back when Wrath converted units directly they ceased to be living, although I don't think this is the case anymore.

 

[Sarisin]

Natures Revenge only effects specific units (like warriors, rangers, archers, etc), not any of the heroes or national units.

I think that Natures Revenge also only affects living units. Back when Wrath converted units directly they ceased to be living, although I don't think this is the case anymore.

I'm not sure what you mean by your first statement, Magister. Nature's Revolt affects only barbarian units. By heroes and national units do you mean Orthus, the Horsemen, or Acheron?

It's true though that you might have a barbarian catapult, so I'm not sure if Nature's Revolt would convert that to an animal.

But, again, with the way AC 90 is now, I don't see how you could use the exploit of the OP.

 

[Pocus]

It is a good thing I said this was theorical then, because I admit I have not yet got up to 90 in my latest game (which is huge and then long to finish).

So I guess I'll see by myself what was already done by Kael & Co.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

		if iProjectType == gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROJECT_NATURES_REVOLT'):
			bPlayer = gc.getPlayer(gc.getBARBARIAN_PLAYER())
			py = PyPlayer(gc.getBARBARIAN_PLAYER())
			iAxeman = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCLASS_AXEMAN')
			iBear = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_BEAR')
			iHunter = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCLASS_HUNTER')
			iLion = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_LION')
			iScout = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCLASS_SCOUT')
			iTiger = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_TIGER')
			iWarrior = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCLASS_WARRIOR')
			iWolf = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_WOLF')
			iWorker = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCLASS_WORKER')
			for pUnit in py.getUnitList():
				bValid = False
				if pUnit.getUnitClassType() == iWorker:
					iNewUnit = iWolf
					bValid = True
				if pUnit.getUnitClassType() == iScout:
					iNewUnit = iLion
					bValid = True
				if pUnit.getUnitClassType() == iWarrior:
					iNewUnit = iLion
					bValid = True
				if pUnit.getUnitClassType() == iHunter:
					iNewUnit = iTiger
					bValid = True
				if pUnit.getUnitClassType() == iAxeman:
					iNewUnit = iBear
					bValid = True
				if bValid:
					newUnit = bPlayer.initUnit(iNewUnit, pUnit.getX(), pUnit.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_NORTH)
					newUnit = bPlayer.initUnit(iNewUnit, pUnit.getX(), pUnit.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_NORTH)
					newUnit = bPlayer.initUnit(iNewUnit, pUnit.getX(), pUnit.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_NORTH)
					pUnit.kill(True,0)
			for iPlayer in range(gc.getMAX_PLAYERS()):
				pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(iPlayer)
				if pPlayer.isAlive():
					py = PyPlayer(iPlayer)
					for pUnit in py.getUnitList():
						if pUnit.isAnimal():
							pUnit.setHasPromotion(gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_HEROIC_DEFENSE'), True)
							pUnit.setHasPromotion(gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_HEROIC_DEFENSE2'), True)
							pUnit.setHasPromotion(gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_HEROIC_STRENGTH'), True)
							pUnit.setHasPromotion(gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_HEROIC_STRENGTH2'), True)

The ritual only effects barbarian axemen, hunters, scouts, warriors, and workers.

 

[Sarisin]

Wow, that makes the ritual pretty worthless IMO.

I've never seen a barbarian scouts or hunters(I guess mean goblins and lizardmen?).

And, usually by the time you build the ritual, you have barb units like champions, goblin chariots, archers, wolf riders, lizardman assasins, and lizardman rangers mostly.

I can't read the code, but it sounds like you are saying none of these would be affected by Nature's Revolt?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Yeah. Goblins and Lizardmen are the barbarian scouts and hunter UUs.

Goblins turn to 3 lions, goblin workers turn to 3 wolves, lizardmen hunters turn to 3 tigers, and axemen turn to 3 bears. That, and giving all players' animals the heroic strength/defense 1+2 promotions is all the ritual does. I do usually consider it worthless, especially late in the game. None of the higher units are effected at all, and the spell never creates the rarer animals (well, except tigers)

 

[Sarisin]

Thanks for your explanation, Magister. You have convinced me that now Nature's Revolt is a complete waste of time.

It's a shame because if more units were added as well as animals (e.g., gorilla) it would be worth it. Also, wouldn't it be fun if, say, you replaced high-level barb unit like a lizardman beastmaster with Gurid or Marmalade, or whatever. It would give a chance to create some nifty barbarian beasties.

I was able to build the Grande Menagerie for the first time in a Shadow game, but I was helped by that event that let me buy a Tiger.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

It would be cool. Well, Gurid or Marmaduke would be too much, but some weaker but still impressive beast units could be cool. (Apes seem more like an ogre replacement than a recon unit to me.) I think that it should convert all living barbarians to animals (or beasts for the strongest of them). I also not a bug fan of creating multiple animals per barb.

In general I think that the Game needs more animals, with different strengths and weaknesses. They should allow for more and more unique cages, and the Menagerie should require a majority of these cages instead of all of them.

 

[xienwolf]

You could always use my module for more animals (should include snakes as soon as I can get the dang elephant sound removed from them. Just wish they were a bit more animated). And Nature's Revolt is AMAZING for giving all of your own animals an extra 2 , if of course you kept a couple of them (or have lots of werewolves...)

 

[Sarisin]

Oh, I don't know, xienwolf, here in Thailand we have snakes that sound like elephants. Or is that elephants that sound like snakes?

Anyway, it would be pretty neat to mix and match the sounds of the animals.

I'll give your module a try...