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ExtraModMod continued

Discussion in 'More Naval AI Modmod' started by lfgr, Jun 16, 2019.

  1. lfgr

    lfgr King

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    No, it's not that easy. I will do that myself, though, in the near future.
     
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  2. Dunadd

    Dunadd Chieftain

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    When I run the installer it asks if i want to install to Mods/ExtraModMod. I click ok. It then says there's an error as the source file Fall From Heaven 2 does not exist. I have Fall From Heaven 2 , patched to 0 by copying and pasting to appropriate folders, in my Civ4/Beyond The Sword/Mods folder. Am I meant to change the destination directory to Mods/Fall From Heaven 2 ?

    EDIT seems problem may be that wehn i downloaded and unzipped Fall From Heave 2 it created a folder called FallfromHeaven2041n containing folders called Fall From Heaven 2 and $PLUGINSDIR. Now I could just delete the folder ending 2041n, but what do i do with $PLUGINSDIR or the two files in it then?

    Also there doesn't seem to be any FallfromHeaven.exe file when i download and unzip fall from heaven - only a config file and a shortcut that says it doesn't lead anywhere when i click on it
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2021
  3. kvaak

    kvaak Chieftain

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    Automated spellcasters being quirky dates back to vanilla FfH2 if I'm not mistaken. Create Forest, Vitalize, Scorch and Spring all eventually cause the caster to randomly pop your world spell. If they have any they might randomly pop other spells too. Automated slaves tend to hurry building instead of building improvements in a similar manner, and while that might be desirable under some circumstances if I wanted to avoid the maintenance cost I could just manually disband or rally them to a city. Somewhere between 200 and 300 turns into an epic game it's usually too late for automated workers to ruin my tiles by spamming cottages everywhere (I really wish they at the very least prioritized unimproved tiles), but slaves and spellcasters? Nah, odds are disbanding them would cause less damage then automating.

    On a semi-related note is there any particular reason Illians can't build workshops on ice? Sure, it'd take ages but it would be nice to have the option. Work in progress also gets temporarily interrupted when a blizzard pops up.
     
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  4. David12596

    David12596 Warlord

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    So yeah this is going to sound crazy, but we seen a big improvement in the AI in both Extramodmod and Magistermodmod when we turn off all the option settings. Now I don't know which one of those settings could be causing the issue, but we are 100% noticing the AI performing so much better with them all. On a side note I usually have permanent alliances, no tech trading, no tech brokering, blessing of amathaon, living world, all unique features, and multiple production. Now when I get a chance I need to do the painful task of trying to figure out what is causing it.
     
  5. lfgr

    lfgr King

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    Downloading from here should give you a file named FallfromHeaven2041n.exe. Execute that file, it sounds like you're opening it as a zip file.

    This sounds like useful information, and would explain why there are not more complaints about bad AI. Could you tell me how many games (more or less) you played with and without the options? I want to be know how likely this is to be accidental.
    I'll see if I can run some automated tests to see if the AI underperforms with those settings turned on, compared to no settings.
     
  6. Dunadd

    Dunadd Chieftain

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    Ok thanks that did install a shortcut that works for FFH2 itself, but still no idea where i'm meant to put all the ExtraModMod folders in it, because it downloads as just a folder containing other folders and files. I've no objection to taking the time to copy and paste them - if only it was clear where they all go.

    It says in the Read Me to paste the compressed file, but it doesn't seem to be a compressed file, it's a folder full of other folders and files
     
  7. lfgr

    lfgr King

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    No, it's not. There is no way you downloaded a folder. Windows just (sometimes?) treats archives like regular folders.
    Assuming you downloaded the archive version of ExtraModMod, please follow the instructions on the download page. To extract the contents, you can open the archive with windows explorer (like you apparently already did), and simply drag-and-drop the contents where you want them (in this case, in Mods/ExtraModMod, where you copied the FfH2 folder).


    EDIT:
    Maybe your problem is that you don't know how to start a mod? Go to Advanced->Load a mod -> ExtraModMod after installing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2021
  8. Sezren

    Sezren Chieftain

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    My take on this - but this is all based on MNAI not EMM:

    Permanent alliances (dont know what it does but assuming it does what it says): This is very good for human player so I would expect it to make the game easier. (Human player will min-max number of units based on threat. AI doesnt seem to do that in a sufficiently intelligent manner - if at all.)

    Blessings of Amathaon & All Unique Features: Good for human player as human player is better at using resources per city placement (etc).

    Living World: Good for human player. Especially on higher difficulties. AI is probably bad at picking the correct option. Some options are outrageously powerful (like getting an extra Settler early on) for human but much weaker in comparison for AI. Human is also much better at preparing for potential events like selecting an expensive tech when not researching anything.

    Tech Trading: I have switched my "serious" playing to "no tech trading" because:
    1. Unfortunately the AI doesnt understand the value (or rather lack thereof) of techs - to its own detriment.
    2. Human player is much better at finding/contacting other civs than AI.
    This has a bigger effect with more AIs in the game. The more AIs are in a game the easier the game becomes if the human reaches the stage of the game at which tech trading becomes powerful.
    I also tried to mitigate this with 'no tech brokering' option but this didnt fix it.
    If however the player isnt very good and the number of AIs in the game is relatively low this can easily be the other way round I think: In that case "no tech trading" may be good for human and bad for AI.
    Also: Obviously the AI can progress much faster if tech trading is on so I am not sure how you would compare automated tests?
     
  9. Dunadd

    Dunadd Chieftain

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    So create a copy of Fall From Heaven 2 in civ4/beyond the word/mods, and rename the copy ExtraModMod? Then open that folder, copy all the stuff extracted from TerkenExtraModMod (downloads as a zip file) and paste it into the ExtraModMod folder?

    But if that's wrong and I need to know which sub-folders to paste from and to, then still back to square one, because some of the ExtraModMod download folders "mainfolder", "config" etc don't seem to exist in the FH2 one

    EDIT : nm just copying and pasting whole lot into the /BeyondTheSword/Mods/ExtraModMod folder seemed to work fine and it ran. Thanks for your help and patience
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2021
  10. Deadeyetim

    Deadeyetim Chieftain

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    Just wanted to drop a note and say thank you. I was actually able to finish a huge Toestra map with 30 players. First time in a couple years without CTD from all the Tholal mod changes. I did omit puppet states this time which might have something to do with the issue...maybe AI creating too many puppet players mid to late game? Some of the stuff in the far wilderness made me crap my pants and killed several of my elite hunters....again...well done...look forward to further versions...
     
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  11. lfgr

    lfgr King

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    Good point. Anyway, I'll wait for more info from @David12596 before deciding if this is worth looking into.

    Please post a savegame here if you get a crash again. Chances are I can fix it.
    But I usually play with puppet states enabled and basically never get any crashes, so it might have been something else.
     
  12. DuskTreader

    DuskTreader Warlord

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    Was thinking about the Unicorn event today. Would make sense for there to be other options if you either own the Grand Menagerie or have a high tier nature unit (Druid/Beastmaster). I'm also curious if the "spare it" option is deterministic (unicorn always dies) or if there's a small chance of another outcome, but I've only ever seen the "dies" outcome.

    From what I've seen on the forums, perhaps I'm in the minority as far as adding other options https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/extramodmod.486227/page-46#post-13718798

    :shrug:
     
  13. David12596

    David12596 Warlord

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    Sorry I wrote a reply, but it never send it. Yeah I was going to say, the only reason I notice it was when my friend was doing a single player game and was pointing out that the AI is doing better. So when I looked into it it turns out everything is off. So far I did a run with all unique features and it seem fine with that on. But in term of what is causing it I really don't know. That would require a lot of testing.
     
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  14. lfgr

    lfgr King

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    Spoiler :

    It is deterministic. Sparing unicorns is forbidden in FfH as per the Princess Rule.
     
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  15. lfgr

    lfgr King

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    New release: 0.6.0-beta6
    Download setup | Download archive

    Not compatible with 0.6.0-beta5 savegames.

    This release incorporates MNAI v2.9-beta3u (see release post). Otherwise, the fertility spell help python exception reported by @kvaak is fixed, and ExtraModMod should now work correctly without requiring FfH or MNAI to be installed alongside (really, I tested it), although it still requires FfH2 to install.

    Thanks to everybody who reported bugs, as usual most of them also applied to MNAI, so I fixed them there.
     
  16. kvaak

    kvaak Chieftain

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    Spoiler :
    There's also the part in The Fall of Mammon where Junil, the paragon of Bannor, Order and all things good offers to "compel" the first human to become the progenitor of mankind when she doesn't wish to do so. And this was (technically) before the fall Agares & co.


    Funnily enough I recently had a run with Tethira/Bannor spawning in the middle of a continent, surrounded by neutral and evil civs on every side. Bannor's early and mid game being miserable compared to pretty much every other single civ I opted to beeline for Education, churned out Shock I Warriors as fast as I could and proceeded pillage the nearest civ the instant I had bronze weapons up. Taking their cities would've crippled my economy which was already choking on the piles of warriors I had, so I opted to raze them instead and vassalized what was left once they gave up. There's only one way to fuel an economy bred by razing and pillaging, so it probably doesn't take a whole lot of imagination to figure out why AC hit 60 by the end of the game despite Ashen Veil being largely a nonfactor.

    Late game Bannor can focus a little less on burning everything to ground as Crusade makes unit maintenance and war weariness a nonissue even if you run City States, but apart from their pitifully weak early/mid game (for any other leader than Tethira anyway) Bannor isn't exactly a civ designed for peaceful co-existence. What a jolly lot the goody two-shoes Bannor are. And don't forget the one religion that forcefully makes your civ good.

    The place FfH's setting is named after pretty much sums it up.

    Already love the fact angry faces are no longer avoided automatically, doubly so for the setting being saved between sessions. Is it intentional ForceGameOptions is still 1 by default? Assuming you always use (roughly) the same options as far as I can tell all it does is force you to re-select them every time .
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
  17. Tielby

    Tielby Prince

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    The sacred and free citadel of mind
    Erebus? I haven't come across that story. What's it named after?
     
  18. kvaak

    kvaak Chieftain

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    Personification of darkness in Greek mythology, and depending on the source either a part of the Greek afterlife (Hades) or interchangeable with it. In a word Hades was still - the deceased could interact with each other, but beyond that everything was still and static. There was no suffering or joy. Nothing ever changed, and while the dead could neither perceive nor affect the world of the living they did presumably retain some form of identity / self-consciousness, even if not their memories.

    Not the worst way to spend an eternity of afterlife, but hardly a pleasant one either. Although I guess FfH's Erebus is fairly lively in comparison, and moreover its inhabitants do have a very real hell or heaven to look forward to.

    E: Plain Mobius Witches are now apparently the rule now rather than the exception - while they weren't rare in Terkhen's EMM most still had at least one spell sphere, sometimes two. Now all I seem to get are plain ones. ZIP with logs and save.

    E2: Installer seems compatible with Steam now, no issues running the (un)installer or playing a game.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
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  19. DuskTreader

    DuskTreader Warlord

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    The blessing of Baal and also bugs protect us from the Ash Cough! This is with the latest version
     

    Attached Files:

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  20. kvaak

    kvaak Chieftain

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    Wild guess that the game gets confused when an event that's supposed to kill pop hits a city with no pop to kill? Same thing that sometimes happens with experience events and golems. I vaguely recall the goblin event turning a golem into an orc too, although that might've been another weird racial like undead or demon. It can definitely override living racials like elven or lizardman on latest version. Almost any unit on the same tile as the actual combatant seems to be a valid target, although I don't seem to recall it ever targeting a worker. Now I'm tempted to see if I can turn Auric Ascended into an orc...

    On another note, the regenerate map option seems to ignore start modifiers like frozen world (or whatever the one where the map gradually thaws is called) and Elohim's maphacks.
     
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